ZBrushCentral

Topology & Flow Lab

ZBrush Usage Questions
#61

Bisenberger: thanks for the demonstration, indeed: moving the points will ‘break’ them from their on-model position.

Spaceboy: good one! If I understand correctly, polypainting stores the color information directly ‘in’ the geometry. With the topology tool you are making new geometry, and thus your polypainted info doesn’t apply on the new model. I don’t know about texture maps, yet. I think it’s a good idea to do the texture/paint part after you have made the new topology.

I’ll put this in the Q&A list. Anyone had different experiences?

And another question: what does the PMulti button (projection multi apparently) in Tool:Rigging do?

#62

I’m beginning to get the hang of this tool now.

Here’s a couple of tips.

Firstly I set my draw size down low. Click away from the model first_ it deselects the ‘root’ Zsphere and allows you to start your Zsphere chain on te model.
I found it best to set X symettry and work from a central seam first clicking at intervals along the seam of the model at a density I thought appropriate for retopologising ( I set the mesh visible on the base obj mesh as a guide only)

Click away from the model again and then click on one of your seam nodes_you’ll know you’ve hit it because you’ll see a red ring. Click a suitable distance away form your seam and a new topology vertex will be produce on the surface of your original mesh. A white triangle will appear pointing from the old to the new point. You can continue clicking away in sequence laying down topology points. However beware! The white triangle base should move along with you_ if not and it extends from point 1 to point 3 rather than point 2 to 3(for example) then the line of new topology points are not in series.

If this happens it’s easy enough to delete your latest point by doing an alt-click on the rogue point. I found it was got practice to make sure nothing was selected by clicking outside the model if I was adding new points.

Once you have a network of topology lines you can begin to bridge the points between lines using the same principal.

Once you have some closed 4 sided topology polygons you can start to review how your new mesh is going to look by pressing ‘A’ to review.

An interesting feature is that once you have a few topoloy polygons you’ll notice as you run your mouse over the lines little orange squares appear. These appear to be equidistant spacers along the topology lines (4 between each vertex)

I realise this tool is mostly about improving topology on roughed out models but for me I think I’m going to find it a much more reliable (if much more labour intensive way) of doing what mesh extraction does. See the image below_ I’ve constructed a ‘mask’ for a rat model I made (I only used the head and neck mesh as a base) I found I had more control over the mesh density using this tecnique.
In another thread it was pointed out that producing clothing by using mesh extraction on propietory models would likely be a breach of copyright because mesh extraction ‘borrows’ the underlying models mesh.
This tecnique on the other hand only uses the virtual surface as a reference and creates your own unique mesh. You’ll notice on the image I’ve also been able to pull the topology vertices in to a new shape for the chin strap prior to doing the conversion.

So all in all after some initial frustration I’m really pleased that this is going to be a most useful tool for me. mask.jpg

#63

Good contribution Noggin, you’ve hinted on some before unmentioned subjects. That copyright issue concerning mesh extraction… strange world. :confused:

Glad Topology is working out for you, it’s growing on me too. :smiley:

#64

great thread.

#65

Aurick: I’m editing the h*ll out of my first post. :evil:small_orange_diamond:) Is this in any way troublesome for the server or this forum? If so, please tell me.

#66

Thanks Noggin useful tips:+1:
bind adhere the new mesh into the old mesh

Andreseloy

#67

spaceboy…you could probably use the projection brush to transfer old texture to new model…I know I read something else too that’s probably more efficient but am learning too so don’t remember what it was…so much fun …keep jumping all over hahaha.

#68

Animuts: there’s a summary on in the first post for this thread, in case the abundance of new techniques makes your brain boil over. :smiley:

andreseloy: I have seen your script several times, but I still don’t get it. “Bind adheres (is that ‘to add/insert’?) the new mesh (is that the Zsphere mesh from the topologizing?) into the old mesh (meaning the mesh that you use as reference for the new topology?).” If so I can’t get it to work… Those Zscripts are so fast, and I can’t see you pressing Bind or Hide buttons in it.
Would you elaborate a bit more?

#69

I’ve noticed the circle that indicates the selected point sometimes turns green. Why could that be?

Further: I’m planning to close this gap (orange lines are new topo). What would be the most clean way? Make triangles? Set one point in the middle and make a star? Try to end with a quad in the middle?

[Loopclosing.jpg](javascript:zb_insimg(‘56493’,‘Loopclosing.jpg’,1,0))

#70

That’s the indicator that tells you if you are on the center of the mirror axis(if activated).

Or to be more precise, if it’s a Circle then you have created there a point on the center axis, if it’s a Square, then there is nothing, but ZB3 tells you that you are on the center line of the axis, if you want create there one.

center.jpg

#71

So Andrelsoy, is the ‘bind’ function a sort of ‘snap to mesh’ function? Does it restrict you to using underlying mesh vertices to create your new topology?

I tried clicking ‘after the event’ on my retopolgy mesh _ it didn’t seem to do anything.

Btw is you save your model (with its topology map applied) as a .ztl you can re-open it and carry on working at a later date.

#72

Just as with ZSpheres, ofcourse! -slaps head- Thanks for clearing that up Mouse_art. :lol:

#73

I think I’m feeling pretty comfortable with it now. The topo tool has some obvious shortcomings, but it’s incredible that we can preview surface detail in real time, means that we can test loops AND forms in real time, which is quite amazing.

I uploaded another movie, showing a quirky workflow (I’m freaking tired, the topo sucks ass, but it was still fun) and some kinks in the tool - at once time, I was able to move the topo faaaar away from the nose - which shouldn’t happen. The points should always stick to the surface.

[attach=61967]retopo.jpg[/attach]

Also, the most annoying bug in it is that sometimes it doesn’t keep up with the user. So you’re in draw mode, you connect vertex 1 with vertex 2, then you click on vertex 3 and ZBrush will still connect vertex 1 with vertex 3! The problem is that you often see that way too late and once you ALT LMB a few times, a lot of the laid out mesh can be destroyed.

Now, I’m VERY picky here. I have to be. This is a great tool which obviously hasn’t been fine-tuned as much as probably most artists out there would want it to be. It’s a bit quirky, it’s a bit unforgiving, but there are also some amazing algorithms behind it.

@Yolao: Since you already edited your posting, I’m pretty sure you found the almighty projection button already… :wink:

#74

Before running press show actions and notes in the zscript panel
Andreseloy

#75

Have to agree,although it makes fun.(but have often to use the undos…should not be the case IMO)

By Thomas Mahler
Also, the most annoying bug in it is that sometimes it doesn’t keep up with the user. So you’re in draw mode, you connect vertex 1 with vertex 2, then you click on vertex 3 and ZBrush will still connect vertex 1 with vertex 3! The problem is that you often see that way too late and once you ALT LMB a few times, a lot of the laid out mesh can be destroyed.

Now, I’m VERY picky here. I have to be. This is a great tool which obviously hasn’t been fine-tuned as much as probably most artists out there would want it to be. It’s a bit quirky, it’s a bit unforgiving, but there are also some amazing algorithms behind it.

#76

Couldn’t agree more Thomas!
The catch up thing is a pain_ however you do get a clue in real time_ look out for the white triangle_ if the base remains stuck on vertex 1 that’s a dud one you’ve laid at V3. Delete it immediately. Click away from the model and reselect V2 (red ring) by clicking on it before attempting v3 again.

Also be careful not to have a placed vertex in isolation. It messes up your retopologised mesh.

I agree also about the real time preview of the finished mesh _ how cool is that! (remember Zbrushers_ just click ‘A’ to toggle between preview and topology mesh) It’s a pretty neat way also of problem solving within your mesh_ you very soon get a feel for where the mesh has gone wrong and it’s easy enough to Alt-Click (delete) the faulty vertexes.

One issue I found when shifting topology vertices away from the mesh was that some of them seemed locked_ couldn’t move them at all. I found the only way to sort this was to delete them and redo them, and, on the whole, that seemed to make them editable again. Don’t really know what was going on there. As you say_ a bit quirky and tempramental but nevertheless a great new addition.

Nigel

#77

You masked them by accident. You don’t get a visual clue, but trust me. Just play around with CTRL and LMB clicking and you’ll be able to manipulate them again.

That’s another one of the things that Pixo has to figure out. But you know, all this sounds worse than it actually is. I kinda love this tool, it’ll free me of doing topo in a SubD Modeler before sculpting, which is awesome. I’ll try that on multiple objs later on, so we could just create design sculpts, stick them as subtools together and work out the topo - afterwards, align the topo and merge it, so you get one mesh - how cool would that be?

So, we’ll see. I see enormous potential here, there are just a few things left that have to be fixed and added.

Oh, the tool being able to pick up color information would be neat as well.

#78

Dooooh! of course _ tat’s great Thomas_ thank you_ that’ll save a bit of hair pulling! So can I just clear that by clearing the mask in the masking palette?

#79

I don’t know, I try not to use any palettes, I’m just CTRL + LMB click-dragging a bit and it always works after that :wink: I love a big canvas, what can I say!

You know, I’m not using the ZB interface all that much - I dunno if the button invokes exactly the same op as the hotkey, so just try to fiddle with your keyboard and tablet, it’s faster anyway :slight_smile:

#80

Done that, but most of the time the notes are saying that “the Tool palette is the true workhorse of the Zbrush interface blablabla” So I STILL don’t get what Bind and Hide do. [Andreseloy screams with frustration]
Please dear sir, enlighten us! :wink: