I think g8610 nailed it. I couldn’t have said it better myself. They either need to up the res or lower the price significantly. I mean, it would be handy to have in limited situations but I don’t want to be limited. :\ Give us higher resolution. Otherwise, I’ll just go with Marmoset or Blender Cycles.
where was it confirmed that the res is gonna be so low?
When Zbrush 4r7 Realese ?! 
Zbrush 4R7 will be released at Christmas. If it’s earlier than that… it’s a bonus!! 
I have to think that way or I will end up going nuts.
My missus couldn’t understand why I kept habitually checking Zbrushcentral. It’s a disease!!! You have to let it go!! :lol:
Yes…the only important thing at the mopment…WHEN??
BJPentecost wrote: I think g8610 nailed it. I couldn’t have said it better myself. They either need to up the res or lower the price significantly. I mean, it would be handy to have in limited situations but I don’t want to be limited. :\ Give us higher resolution. Otherwise, I’ll just go with Marmoset or Blender Cycles.
It won’t happen because the $1,000 base Keyshot standalone version has the same resolution limit. They won’t up the res for a ZBrush version costing a quarter of their base version.
It won’t happen because the $1,000 base Keyshot standalone version has the same resolution limit. They won’t up the res for a ZBrush version costing a quarter of their base version.
I know it probably won’t happen but I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t and I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t voice our concerns. I mean yeah, on one hand, we’re fortunate to be getting it at all. I’ve been saying Pixo needs a decent in-house renderer for years. On the other hand, if they can make the KS bridge better, why not do so? It probably wouldn’t be that hard to do and people would be more likely to buy. It’s win/win.
According to the Keyshot product comparison, 1080p is only the limit for real time rendering in Keyshot HD. Offline rendering for the HD version goes up to 4.1 Megapixels, which would be adequate for smaller sized print work at 300 dpi, and probably poster sized 11x14 if you go 150 dpi, which is usually sufficient for posters.
On the one hand, $250 for a typically 1000$ quality rendering option (KeyshotHD) is a great value, especially when you factor in the ZB integration. However, $1000 is a lot to pay for crippled software that is within spitting distance pricewise of far more robust toolsets. From that way of looking at it, the ZB Keyshot is easily the best way of owning Keyshot HD, and possibly the only way it might be worth paying for KSHD at all, IMO, considering all the other things you can’t do in KSHD without upgrading to Pro as well (seriously, read the product comparisons/limitations before making a decision on whether to buy this).
However, I am inclined to agree with you that given the impending 4k standard, and that my next monitor will certainly be greater than 1080p, the resolution cap is something of a non-starter no matter how great KS is in other ways. It would just make more sense to invest in something less crippled. I was very disappointed to learn about this, as ZB4r7 looks absolutely fantastic, and on the surface, the Keyshot bridge looked like a no-brainer.
Sorry, but I still do not get it:
KS/bridge renders not large enough?
KS and the price tag?
These and some more versus:
ZBrush >> GoB = render in Blender, for free, any (almost) resolution
ZBrush>>multipass render (in ZBrush)>>comped in Gimp - again, free, any resolution
ZBrush>>Marmoset (takes polypaint without the need of UV’s, just like KS and Blender) - look at the price tag here :)!
This is not meant to say anything against KS with or without the bridge - this (KS with or without bridge) only is an option that had not been there before.
I honestly think that it is about time for some to quit nagging and practise some patience, along with a careful look on the far side of the - often very dense - horizont.
Why?
We are looking forward to box modeling in ZBrush, to 64 bit version, and I guess forward to a lot of features that not have been mentioned, yet.
Still some like to keep on nagging - I really do not get it, sorry.
Any self respecting artist wil not show their great detailed artwork/portfolio which they put so much time and effort in to create a printed version of it at postcard size in my opinion. And that’s the only thing you can do with 4mpx. If you want to confidently show your artwork to serious clients or put them on display for an exposition 4 mpx is NOT an option. Unless you are talking about a book to show your grandma with impaired vision. 
It won’t happen because the $1,000 base Keyshot standalone version has the same resolution limit. They won’t up the res for a ZBrush version costing a quarter of their base version.
That’s what the music business said at first too when the landscape was changing. And look at where we are now.
If there are products that offer similar or better experiences for more or less the same price then Pixologic and Luxion are gambling on how short sighted the majority of their own market is. If the majority only uses pixologic/Luxion website as their source of information. Then yes they could probably get away with ignoring their own market. But I doubt the people who know these websites/companies (Pixologic/Luxion) came to to know them directly. They came to know about Zbrush and and Keyshot via, websites, magazines, friends/colleagues etc. And when it comes down to a new purchase those sources of information are consulted again. It’s very unlikely that they don’t update their knowledge about available software/prices. So if the majority of their customers only researches just a little then they lose that potential customer and first impressions are everything. The minute the product launches and it’s too expensive for what it offers it’s already lost customers and trust. They will go for the next competitor on the list.
And right now there are plenty of good alternatives named by me and other people in this thread.
Blender cycles,
Octane
Marmoset Toolbag 2
Pixar’s Renderman. (Which is a good example of a company who understands changing landscapes and acknowledges it. They realize the landscape is changing and are adjusting their strategy accordingly to survive. Oh and this renderer is also good if you indeed want to print a book for your grandma since it will be FREE (fully) for non commercial use. It’s actually a very smart move. Students will try/use Renderman because it’s free and they can also use it for their portfolio. So they will be exposed to it’s features which is free advertising and they will get used to the product/interface and it’s features. So when they get a job and have to choose a renderer they are more likely to choose Renderman since they have plenty of experience with it and no extra learning curve + the lower price. A professional piece of software that used to cost thousands of dollars for only 495 soon)
So if you’re willing to bury your head in the sand you’l be a dinosaur in no time.
Yep, Renderman will be free for “private” use.
And, if you look at the site, it behaves pretty much like KS does.
Only: there are a few more options that seem to be more focussed on the “needs” of results from ZBrush.
So for hobbyists there will be more then enough options to get their pictures out, even if grandma sadly has passed away.
The bridge to KS, btw., had been thought to be for the hobbyists as well (the majority of the users 
).
Again, the bridge to KS only is an option for those who find the existing options not “good” enough. Nobody will be forced to use it, after all.
And as far as marketing decisions are concerned: seen ZBrush from the first start and I have every reason to believe, that the overall success of ZBrush not had been the result of working with a chrystal bowl, picking straws or anything like that.
Only my opinion, and - sorry for any typo, you can keep them, got enough of that sort (no native speaker).
While I agree with you in principle, only half your list contains realistic replacements for what even the crippled version of KS offers, and they are both more expensive than zbks bridge. I won’t discuss them by name, because Pixologic frowns upon that and it’s a good way to get moderated. KS is about delivering great image quality for photoreal product viz with very little effort and time, and the ZB/KS is integrated with ZB for real time updating, allowing you to rapidly conceptualize. That workflow efficiency and quality has a dollar value, and that value is not zero.
Just because something can render out a picture doesn’t mean it’s a replacement for what ZBKS offers, especially if the quality is not as good, or it’s much more difficult and time consuming to get quality results, or if everything sort of looks like a video game. There are plenty of people that are going to benefit from from the rapid, high quality conceptualization ablity the ZBKS bridge gives them, and in my opinion, you’re being a bit too dismissive.
That said, it unfortunately doesn’t meet my needs, as I too need a bit more flexibility in output rez. But I suspect it will be just the thing for a lot of people that dont have my needs, and I’m going to be jealous looking at all their slick, shiny, fast renders.
I see what you’re saying but let’s consider a few things here. Firstly, Zbrush’s BPR is more than adequate for a lot of people who might be otherwise inclined to purchase the KSB if not for the 4.1mpx limit. That’s a lot of potential revenue flushed down the toilet by what seems to me like an arbitrary decision not to hike up the res limit’s skirt just a little more. I mean, 4.1mpx is a bit of ankle at best. That’s really not a lot to work with. Prototypers and advertisers might love this but illustrators like me are not going to get much use out of it. Gods help you if you think you’re going to use KSB on portfolio pieces or to showcase work above and beyond VERY small, compact things, as has been mentioned above.
Secondly, there are many, many cheaper more flexible alternatives to the KSB out there that are just as good in quality or better; some of them are even free and some of them are taking advantage of the GPU which is a metric !@#$%^&*TON faster. When people look at the KSB, they are weighing it against other packages that are cheaper (or free), far more flexible, and yield speedier renders. The big draw of the KSB is that it is integrated into Zbrush. Whoopty-friggen-doo. It saves us from the minor hassle of having to drag all our models off to another program. Is Zbrush integration worth sacrificing resolution, $$$, speed, and flexibility? I’m betting a lot of people are going to say no.
Personally, I kinda want it anyway because it does seem like it would have some use, limited as that may be. I’m kinda desperately hoping that they’ll give us more resolution at some point down the line but I’m not going to hold my breath. :\
It bears repeating that I agree with the disappointment over the crippled nature of KSHD (KSB) and can’t justify buying it due to my specific output needs, but again, you’re overstating the case against it.
I disagree. I was happy to see the advances ZB made in this area, but it’s still a primitive tool in this regard, incapable of mundane things we take for granted in any dedicated renderer, it’s overly confusing to set up and use, and as of zb4r6, still prone to bugs and error. It is not comparable to a polished, dedicated preview/beauty renderer like KS, and the KSB is a big leap forward in ZB output ability.
And as I pointed out in the post just prior, no, there really aren’t. Yes, there are rendering options that are cheaper than the ZBKS $250 price tag, or even free. None of them are as good in quality or better, in terms of results with the same time and effort, as KS is for what it does. I would recommend trying the Keyshot demo.
Like I said above, Keyshot is designed around producing slick, high quality photoreal results, particularly for the purposes of product visualization, with minimal time and effort. It does this pretty quickly for a CPU based renderer. If the “lightning fast” GPU based renderer you’re thinking of tends to produce things that look like they were rendered in a high end video game engine, then it’s not really a replacement for KS. If the “free” (by which you mean open source, which is not the same as “free”) option is powerful and flexible, but is also famously tricky to work with, does not produce the same quality results in the same time, with the same minimal effort, and same level of instant updating, then it is not a replacement for what KSB offers. There are more realistic replacements for what KSB offers, but they all come with a higher price tag.
Time is money. The speed and ease with which you can achieve great looking results in KS, coupled with the Zbrush interactivity of Zbrush KSB, has a significant dollar value which is greater than zero. People that don’t specifically need to be producing poster sized prints at 300 dpi, and need a fast, quality solution for high end visualization for their ZB work are going to get a lot out of it. I just wish I was one of those people. I’m going to be really jealous when I start seeing all those great looking Keyshot renders of works in progress.
Frankly, I have roasted enough brain cells becoming minimally competent in zb (I have no talent to fall back on) and I don’t want to spend a lot of time learning how to get good use with a renderer, so KS sounds good to me.
that makes sense magnabob, but those of us that are invested in other software with rendering capabilities are definitely thinking twice about the keyshot deal.
I don’t think I will be investing in the KS option, but it’s all good, it is good to have options and choices. An interface to Octane would be great though.
Nice if Pixologic add new features like:
-Clip (Bazier) with free transform each points
-Slice (Bazier) with free tansform each points
-Better Retopology (auto will be nice like in 3D coast or Mudbox)
“Pixologic is proud to announce ZBrush 4R7, our final release in the ZBrush 4 series. Take advantage of ZBrush 4R6 now and get a free upgrade to ZBrush 4R7.”
Curious, does this mean a Zbrush price increase for R7? Don’t know what else “take advantage of R6 now and get a free upgrade” could mean.
Or is it just marketing? “order now and you get…time is running out”