It means they don’t want people who are on the fence about buying to worry about waiting until r7 comes out. They want them to know it’s ok to buy now and they wont miss anything, unlike a lot of other software where if you time your purchase poorly before a new release, you have to pay to upgrade. “Take advantage” just means use R6 while you wait for R7.
There may also be a price increase, as that happens from time to time, but I doubt they’d let us know ahead of time.
And as I pointed out in the post just prior, no, there really aren’t. Yes, there are rendering options that are cheaper than the ZBKS $250 price tag, or even free. None of them are as good in quality or better, in terms of results with the same time and effort, as KS is for what it does. I would recommend trying the Keyshot demo.
Yeah, KS is easier to use (I have actually tried it out*) and the convenience of integration would be great but that res limit is just devastating. Anyway, it seems we’re basically agreeing in principle and disagreeing over minutia so I’ll let it go. I just really, really wish they’d up that resolution. It feels like they’re dangling an absolutely perfect filet mignon in front of a starving child then saying “here, you can have this teeny-tiny little corner here.” Yeah, it’s better than nothing I suppose but… can I have maybe just another little corner?
*So far, I have found KS to be really fast for a CPU renderer (it even stacks up well against some of the GPU renderers I’ve used) and it turns out great, photorealistic images. However, I do have a few critiques.
1.) Does not handle interior scenes very well.
2.) RES LIMIT UUUGGGHHHH! Facepalm-Hairpull-headdesk Limits usefulness to artists/illustrators like me.
3.) Does not allow for SSS maps (as far as I can tell?).
4.) Crashes with higher polycount (this might be a limitation of my CPU?)
I’m not saying that KS is bad by any stretch. It’s quite amazing for what it can do. Now pardon me, I’m going to stop whinging pointlessly and go be bitter off in my own little corner. Maybe someday we’ll get an awesome, affordable, hybrid GPU/CPU render that can churn out perfectly photorealistic renders in a matter of seconds. Hey, a girl can dream. 
Maybe someday we’ll get an awesome, affordable, hybrid GPU/CPU render that can churn out perfectly photorealistic renders in a matter of seconds.
In other word a push button/unartistic approach to one of the most creative field : sculpting. I really do not agree with the fact that a renderer should decide for me what is a good render or a photorealistic render, I need a renderer to be easy to use, flexible, customizable, a renderer that work work on every computer (from laptop to workstation, CPU or GPU - I personnaly think CPU is still better as it affects people who do not own a Nvidia-). And as far as I’m concerned Keyshot does just that.
For all the people that are unhappy with the Keyshot Bridge, I never read anywere you were constrained to buy it. Any decision about a bridge with an other software will make some people happy and some not. But here is the thing, I don’t think a high-end/3d package integrated renderer like Vray, Arnold, Mentalray or whatever other renderer would be a good option for a ZBrush Bridge. Because such a renderer would be counterproductive for people who just want a fast preview/render of their creation.
I think the best solution whould be to integrate Keyshot (or a Keyshot like renderer, for the Keyshot haters) directly into ZBrush. Let’s face it if Pixologic had annonced such a feature in ZBrush, I don’t think all the fuss about Keyshot would have happened. And it is really deviating from what seemed to be a really good idea for artist to a technical war about which renderer is best, this is just not the topic.
That isn’t very helpful. There have been some poorly phrased arguments and exaggeration, but for the most part people are reacting to some specific and deliberate limitations in the Keyshot HD version that are just a bit outside of some people’s comfort zone. Keyshot is great for what it specializes in, a good fit for ZB in general, and most people would be thrilled to have access to an un-crippled version.
That’s really not what’s happening here.
Zbrush can render out in excess of 8000x8000. I guarantee you if that feature suddenly limited Zbrush to a quarter of that, there would indeed be some fuss.
I think a sober, dispassionate discussion on the matter will only help to show what a great fit Keyshot is for Zbrush in general, and how helpful KSB will be for some people–people who might be getting confused by the noise on the subject. If we can keep from exaggerating wildly on either side of the issue, I think there are some helpful points to be made.
I guess we can also wait for the beta testers feedback and see what they have to say about the bridge.
I guarantee you if that feature suddenly limited Zbrush to a quarter of that, there would indeed be some fuss.
But that’s the point, inside ZBrush there are no limitations to HD resolutions. Only in Keyshot HD, and the customer is not constrained to buy the bridge, if an other renderer suits one’s professional needs then go for it. I can also guarantee you some people will be really satisfied with a cheap Keyshot, even if limited to HD res.
It was announced that the Keyshot Bridge is a Zbrush specific version of Keyshot HD, and those are the specified limitations of Keyshot HD. People are basing their assumptions on that information.
I agree wholeheartedly, and have said so. As well they should. It’s especially well suited to the direction Zbrush is moving in as a rapid concepting tool, especially with the new r7 features for low poly work, and a huge boon for a direct from Zbrush workflow.
I wish people wouldn’t get hung up on the CPU vs GPU thing. Zbrush is CPU based as well, after all, so a system optimized for Zbrush will also be able to run KS well. Output speed is measured in the time it takes to set up quality results, not just actual rendering speed. Keyshot excels at both.
It’s especially well suited to the direction Zbrush is moving in as a rapid concepting tool, and a huge boon for a direct from Zbrush workflow.
I wish people wouldn’t get hung up on the CPU vs GPU thing. Zbrush is CPU based as well, after all, so a system optimized for Zbrush will also be able to run KS well. Output speed is measured in the time it takes to set up quality results, not just actual rendering speed. Keyshot excels at both.
+1
Meanwhile, I can’t wait for it to be released and see how much will cost KS for ZB + the bridge.
In other word a push button/unartistic approach to one of the most creative field
That’s a needlessly insulting and thoughtless thing to say. I am an artist and a detail artist at that. What that means for me, personally, is that I don’t want to sit here fiddling with settings for an hour and a half just to get a render that took all day to finish and does not represent my models as well as I hoped or imagined. I like being able to render quickly and efficiently because it makes my job easier. Calling the desire for better artistic tools “unartistic” is just absurd on its face and accusing us of letting renderers “decide for us” is even more ludicrous. Furthermore, your argument completely ignores the fact that the KSB you’re cheerleading for isn’t too far away from that “perfect renderer” I described in the first place. It’s fast, it’s efficient, it can churn out photorealistic images. All I want is a renderer that can do those things a little faster, more flexibly, and with higher resolution. So ya might want to stop beatin’ up that strawman because no one here ever said we wanted a renderer that will “make decisions for us.”
For all the people that are unhappy with the Keyshot Bridge, I never read anywere you were constrained to buy it.
Many of us have been wanting a strong, user-friendly, and efficient rendering option within Zbrush for ages. And the KSB is more than adequate for a lot of people. However, it’s not adequate for many others. We’re allowed to voice our opinions. I think most of us in this camp realize we’re SOL on the “can has more res” front but there’s nothing wrong with us voicing our thoughts on the matter.
I don’t think all the fuss about Keyshot would have happened. And it is really deviating from what seemed to be a really good idea for artist to a technical war about which renderer is best, this is just not the topic.
The KSB is one of the MAIN features and biggest draws of the next Zbrush iteration so NONE of this is off-topic. We’re rightfully expressing our opinions on a major feature of Zbrush’s next release.
Look… I’m not trying to come across like some whiny malcontent. I realize maybe I am a bit but that’s not my intention. I’m just a little annoyed because throughout my artistic career, this has become the norm:
Here’s this awesome new tool that ALMOST! does what you need it to!
Here’s this awesome new tool that does EXACTLY! what you need it to for the low, low cost of $10,000!
Here’s this awesome new tool that does EXACTLY! what you need it to! …if you own a supercomputer.
Now it’s: here’s this awesome new tool that does EXACTLY! what you need it to… at a teeny, tiny, almost useless resolution.
KS is great and I’m sure the KSB will be of much use to many people. I’m not contesting that. All I’m saying is a little more res would be nice. I know I’m not going to get it but hey, ya never know. Sometimes, ask and ye shall receive works out.
I’m here for the game changing low poly/hard surface/ speed modelling tools.
That’s a needlessly insulting and thoughtless thing to say. I am an artist and a detail artist at that. What that means for me, personally, is that I don’t want to sit here fiddling with settings for an hour and a half just to get a render that took all day to finish and does not represent my models as well as I hoped or imagined. I like being able to render quickly and efficiently because it makes my job easier. Calling the desire for better artistic tools “unartistic” is just absurd on its face and accusing us of letting renderers “decide for us” is even more ludicrous. Furthermore, your argument completely ignores the fact that the KSB you’re cheerleading for isn’t too far away from that “perfect renderer” I described in the first place. It’s fast, it’s efficient, it can churn out photorealistic images. All I want is a renderer that can do those things a little faster, more flexibly, and with higher resolution. So ya might want to stop beatin’ up that strawman because no one here ever said we wanted a renderer that will “make decisions for us.”
Sorry but just selecting an HDRI and assigning a material to a model is basically letting the renderer do all the work. Wanting a photorealistic results in seconds, as you were saying, is unrealistic for an illustration. My intention is not to insult anyone obviously, I just think there is a difference between an artistic input regarding the lighting of a scene or model and a simple HDR lighting. KS can does both and it’s great.
I never said you were not allowed to express your opinion, I’d like to hear it and discuss about the suject. Obviously, as I said, there will be some people pro-KSB some cons. However, if one wants a fast/easy to use/cheap/non resolution limited renderer within ZBrush maybe it will be introduced in the future. The KSB could be a good starting point to see how much users want such a bridge/renderer directly inside of ZBrush.
The KSB is one of the MAIN features and biggest draws of the next Zbrush iteration so NONE of this is off-topic. We’re rightfully expressing our opinions on a major feature of Zbrush’s next release.
KS vs Octane is off topic.
I’m here for the game changing low poly/hard surface/ speed modelling tools.
Well I said the KSB was ONE of the main features. Not THE main feature. Those hard modeling tools are bleeding revolutionary. I neeeeeeeeeed them. Like… right now, this very instant. 4r7 cannot come fast enough! This is going to be a huge boon to my 3D printing endeavors. It looooooks like it will eliminate my need to use other programs for hard-surface modeling as well which will be nice because I HATE bouncing around between 5 different programs.
I’ve said that for every software purchase I’ve made in the last decade, but you always find a reason to bounce around with different tools. I think it’s reasonable to expect them to drastically increase the amount of time I can spend in Zbrush for a lot of things, which is good. The more time I can spend in Zbrush, the happier I am.
But really, it’s just one more major piece of the puzzle that people have wanted in Zbrush for over ten years. It’s always easy to miss the forest for the trees when new updates are announced that might not contain everything you could conceivably wish for. Viable low poly tools, interactive edge creasing, a quality, Zbrush-direct rendering solution–all important and long wished for updates to Zbrush’s core functionality. Next stop, 64 bit, the last major ceiling I feel like I have in Zbrush.
Zbrush is making massive strides. That all these core updates in a cutting edge program have been given freely to program owners for a decade now is staggering to me, in a world where software companies are increasingly about how to extract more money per minute from their customer base in exchange for minimal innovation. Pixo seems genuinely driven by the sheer joy of creation. Zbrush is the single best software purchase I’ve ever made.
Obviously someone will now chirp in with, “yeah, but what about X feature”. They’ll get there. I’m so excited to see what Zb5 has in store.
I’m eagerly waiting for the new box modeling tools. They Look awesome. I just wish it includes some kind of snapping and maybe some kind of numeric entry in order to be really effective and precise. Without that it would be impossible to really abandon all the other 3D apps and to have a complete workflow all inside of Zbrush.
And maybe some kind of inference system (like Sketchup does) would be a dream come true.
New modeling tools look great! KSB would be great, but the res limitation makes it useless for illustration purposes. Cant even use it for concept art to jet-print and put on wall, since client now ask higher res for those images too ( for the possibility of an “art of” book). A 12 mp res limit would be much better…
My intention is not to insult anyone obviously, I just think there is a difference between an artistic input regarding the lighting of a scene or model and a simple HDR lighting. KS can does both and it’s great.
Using KS’s “instant render” feature does not negate the hours of hard work we put into sculpting our models, texturing, and posing. Furthermore, in my line of work, I have to work fast. I need an “instant render” option for my clients. It’s the difference between making deadlines and impressing them or not making deadlines and not impressing them.
However, if one wants a fast/easy to use/cheap/non resolution limited renderer within ZBrush maybe it will be introduced in the future. The KSB could be a good starting point to see how much users want such a bridge/renderer directly inside of ZBrush.
That’s a fair point. I’ll give you that one. Nolo contendere.
KS vs Octane is off topic.
We’re talking about Octane in the context of how it compares to KS and some people think Octane might have been a better fit. It might be tangential but not off-topic, I don’t think.
I don’t think the KSB is the devil. In fact, I will probably shell out the 250$ for it because it will have SOME use for me, limited as it may be. I’m more of a general illustrator. I can imagine rendering my models in segments and piecing them together in PS. It will be a pain but I’ve had to do it before and it has worked out in the past. I think the KSB is a positive step and I only hope we’ll get a little more res to work with in the future.
That all these core updates in a cutting edge program have been given freely to program owners for a decade now is staggering to me
Abso-friggen-lutely. This cannot be said enough. It should be sung from the rooftops. I’m floored by just about every release. Yeah, sure, I’d love to have more 3D printing tools and a renderer with more res but at the end of the day, Zbrush is my favorite art-software for a reason. Pixo is BY FAR the most innovative and progressive digital art company I have ever encountered. Let that be understood above anything else I have said.
ii really don’t think the idea of having an instant, one button click render solution is a bad thing at all.
i really don’t think any artist’s integrity would be brought into question for wanting such a thing, either.
hell, i’d love such a thing. for the most part, i like to try and learn the how’s and why’s, but let’s be honest- after you labor over a sculpt’s composition and then detailing, anatomy and so forth- the idea of doing a render is (in my eyes) just like grabbing a camera and taking a photo. beyond adjusting some light to cast some shadows in a convincing manner, all you’re looking to achieve when you take a camera pic of a physical sculpt is, just a well lit representation of the work you did.
that’s pretty much how i look at rendering. i just want a representation of my work to look like it would if i had my sculpt printed and then i snapped off a pic with my camera.
is it worthy of merit that there are those who fully understand all the nuts and bolts of what makes a render work?
sure. but i don’t really care to know. i still have tons to learn on the sculpting side of things and that’s what i want to focus on.
i’m not a photographer or painter. i don’t really care to learn the in’s and out’s of color theory and painting techniques, nor do i really want to the learn all there is to know about light tents, shutter speeds and all the like. i’m just a sculptor and i want to show people what i sculpted. so i just want a one click solution, personally.
I have a question about new realeses after 4R7 as we know (4R7 is final version of 4 series) and here is my question Pixologic still ofert free update to new releases or they only support series like 4 (4R2/4R3 etc) when 5 series realese i must buy new Zbrush with full price or with discout?!
(sorry for my engish hope do you know what i mean)
Soulmus, I’ve never seen them answer this question before. They don’t commit to anything beyond the present update. I’ve been a Zbrush owner for over ten years now and they’ve never charged me for a single program update–but that doesn’t mean that they won’t in the future.
It would be best to make your purchasing decisions based on the present version, and take nothing for granted.
Soulmus, at this point in time your guess is as good as ours. Pixologic haven’t mentioned if ZBrush 5 will be a free upgrade or not. Period.
One point to avoid possible confusion or misleading information from anyone:
The ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge and KeyShot itself are two completely separate items. The ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge is NOT KeyShot.
The ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge is a ZBrush plugin that sends data directly to any version of KeyShot 5+
KeyShot for ZBrush is essentially a third version of KeyShot which can only receive files from ZBrush via the ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge. So KeyShot for ZBrush is useless without the ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge. The ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge is also useless without SOME version of KeyShot but that version does not have to be KeyShot for ZBrush.
The idea behind KeyShot for ZBrush is in keeping with Pixologic’s philosophy to keep ZBrush accessible to hobbyists as well as professionals. It provides a special version of KeyShot at a price that is within reach of most anyone. Because it is useless without the ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge, both it and the Bridge are being bundled together for people who don’t need all the bells and whistles of the professional version. However, people will also be able to buy the KeyShot to ZBrush Bridge by itself to go with either of the other versions of KeyShot.
Please make sure that if you say KSB you are referring to the Bundle; not the ZBrush to KeyShot Bridge. We want to avoid confusion. Honestly, it would be better to avoid saying KSB altogether due to the fact that the Bundle is not required to be able to use ZBrush and KeyShot together. It is simply one option.
Please Note: The output resolution of this special ‘KeyShot for ZBrush’ will be higher than the KeyShot HD version! Further details will be available when Z4R7 is released.
Thanks! 