ZBrushCentral

Mac & Zbrush 3 Thread

well history shows that for the 3d industry and even zbrush being 2.5d…still fits in the siggraph is where the announcements are made for new versions and new releases for nr all major 3d apps and effcts plugins…

[nab in april is where video/film apps and hardware get’s their showcase]

i’ve been following siggraph’s shows since 1998 so on the past track record that’s a LARGE enough reason to believe that if there’s any announcement to be made and marketing to kick in…siggraph is where the media are at to
write about and review new versions and new apps in their websites/forums/ podcasts and printed media [3dworld mag etc].

now if i were a betting man [and im not btw]… there’s good ‘odds’ on some info happening at siggraph 2008 re zbrush for mac and z brush in general.

And in this case. Who could blame you for not being a betting man :smiley:

There’s actually, as yet, no reason at all, to expect anything from Pixologic.

http://www.siggraph.org/s2008/

look under ‘p’ in the ‘for exhibitors list’…pixologic are there…
and i’m darn sure they won’t just be showing last years software…

and i’m darn sure they won’t just be showing last years software…

Why not?

They may do. It’s not like they’ve got much competition elsewhere. They’ve plenty of amazing user produced work, to impress the audiences.

and have a look where they are>
not exactly buried in a corner in the cheap seats eh?

http://www.siggraph.org/s2008/exhibitors/FloorPlan3687F8.pdf

being neighbours of autodesk [mudbox, maya, max, motion builder] and sony image works plus intel means there in there with the ‘big boys’

well ‘currently’ you maybe right but seeing as siggraph is where new and improved apps are showcased who knoow’s WHAT autodesk have cooked up in the last year for mudbox since they bought skymatter [dev of mudbox]…which IS zbrush’s main rival and just how they plan to intergrate it with maya and max.

yeah i’m looking on the bright side…but with reason to think that if they don’t show new stuff then someone like autodesk may steal their limelight with a new version of mudbox that’s all signing and dancing new gizmo’s…mudbox may even have been ported to osx and linux too…

come on…‘believe’!:wink:

zbrush for mac at siggraph>> ‘get rid of those negative waves man’:smiley:

I really hope we get some good news at SIGGRAPH - if not sooner!
I don’t think I can hold on much longer!

Hang On.jpg

Here’s an even more troubling thought: Imagine if the highlight at SIGGRAPH is Autodesk unveiling their latest acquisition, ZMUD!! (shudder)…Or, even worse, MUDBRUSH! (shudder again)

Atleast we would know that something is actually happening if Autodesk is buying pixologic.

we would know that there would be lots of money in the company and we would definately get a better customer treatment.

I’m not in the slightest, interested, in these other apps you mention. I’ve already bought and paid for a product, that by all indications will suit me just fine. I’ve no idea why you keep throwing them into the mix, on this forum. Unless it’s to deliberately provoke dispute. There are any number of other threads that you could evangelise your enthusiasm for Max, Maya, Mudbox or Siggraph. Please. Either support us or leave us to it. No more stirring.

As it is, this thread. Is the only channel for Mac users to voice, (with reasonable expectation of being read by management), their requests for information.

agreed.
Now if we can just get some official comments, i mean, just a - “we’ll have something at siggraph” will be enough since we then know what or when to expect something

But that said, We wouldnt get the perks Pixo has on its own (I know I know we are still waiting for said Perks) Autodesk would release the product like they said it would but we’d miss out on the free plugins, the free basic training and (dont slate me for this, as I’m pissed off waiting too) Free upgrades!

Sorry to go back to this, just had to voice. How far away is Siggraph now? Is anyone from Pixo looking at this thread at all?

Maybe, maybe not. As dissatisfied as I am right now, I really hate the idea of one ginormous company holding all the cards. Without any real alternative, or competition, they would have us all by the short hairs. (Cough - Oil Companies) See? At least with Pixo, we know where we stand… Uh…Yeah… Somewhere between a rock and a hard place.

Hardplace.jpg

Don’t you hate it when you come to this site and see there’s a new icon in the top row only to realise a split second later that it has absolutely nothing to do with Z3 mac.

I would be gutted if Autodesk bought out Pixologic. It would be death for 3D.

I love this sculpt by Alex Oliver. I think it says a lot about talent and emotion.

you may not be interested but i’m sure pixologic have a great interest in what their competitors are upto and same with autocash and luxology being interested in what pixologic are up to as well

as for stirring…you have the wrong end of the stick…i’m adding a level headed clarity to the situation and hsitory of what has happened before to take a good guess at what maybe happening

if you want to gag people’s ability to post a reply you should put me on your ignore list :cry: …please don;'t though…i like everyone :slight_smile: …we’re all z brush nutters here right? :wink:

Well I used to be… :confused:

I don’t know about that!

Once I get my software. And have had a couple of months to play around with it. I’ll be sure to let you know. Because I like you. :wink:

Sorry. You may not have noticed. (it is a long thread}. But it’s mainly of interest, to Mac users, who’ve been waiting a really very long time. For ZBrush 3.1. We just want some facts about what’s going on.

Just for the sake of clarity. Here’s a bit of history: Last August I handed over about £300. Still haven’t received what I paid for and no word of explanation.

I’m one of those guys who bought ZB3 for Mac when the deal was first offered. I never got ZB2 to reliably work on my intel MacBook Pro, and I don’t really have room on my HD to put Windows. So like the rest of you, I’ve been waiting. Every week or so, I search the forums to see if there’s news. There’s certainly a lot of angst, but not a lot of news.

This is what I think is going on. The ZB app used to be a Carbon app. A lot of apps from before weren’t being done on XCode, but with the intel transition, that’s become one necessary migration. Some people have had problems with this transition. My guess is that, if the only thing was that they were moving to XCode, ZB3 for Mac would have been out in the expected 6 month timeframe (ZB2 shows that the fundamental algorithms can be ported to the Mac). But of course, ZB3 didn’t come out in the expected timeframe. Perhaps the new algorithms were tougher to port for some reason. More likely, though, something else came up.

When OS X 10.5 was showcased, it became apparent that 64bit would be Cocoa only. Other technologies would need Cocoa as well, and the writing is on the wall that Cocoa is the future. My suspicion is that, during the course of the project, they decided to move to Cocoa as well. And it was in this transition, where they had problems. Maybe this isn’t what happened. Maybe they simply tried to revamp the codebase, to factor out the platform-specific code into small areas to make porting easier.

In either case, they had problems with the resulting code not working as expected. Either with buggy behavior or (more likely) with some form or horrible performance problem. Whatever the problems were, it’s clear that they didn’t fully understand their scope. They made some internal predictions and they publicized them. The release date came and went, and even though they’d tried to be careful about saying the predictions were unofficial, a lot of already frustrated people became more frustrated and more critical.

The people at Pixo (who are, after all, just people) were naturally frustrated by their failure to hit the target date, too, but on top of that they felt like they had egg on their face from having made some bad public predictions. Still, though, they make some more predictions. Those dates slipped past, too. After a couple of rounds of incorrect predictions, the decision was made that further predictions (unofficial or otherwise) would likely cause more harm than good.

And that’s where we are right now. I don’t think we’re being ignored, as such. I think that someone decided that inaccurate predictions were just making them look worse than silence. Sure, some of us are grateful for information. But some others just take any contact as an excuse to be a turd. Since the only news that’s going to be really popular is “Come and get it”, they apparently decided that they’ll say nothing else until that’s the message. (And even when the message is “Come and get it” there will be angry posts by people saying, “That’s ALL I get?”)

In the meantime, we spend a lot of time interpreting this silence in various ways: big things are coming, nothing is coming, Pix hates Macs, etc. None of these interpretations are necessarily warranted, though. Big things might be coming. ZB4 has been mentioned. I’d be delighted to get ZB4 (or ZB 3.5 or whatever) instead of 3.1. But the extraordinary delay probably doesn’t have as much to do with upgrade goodness as it does simply to the fact that something was awry with the code porting. In which case, all we can really hope for is that ZBx for Mac works cleanly and snappily.

Now consider the second possibility, that nothing is coming. Remember Half-Life 2. After a certain point, if problems are bad enough, Pix might potentially pull the plug on the Mac. Hopefully this won’t happen. We can probably increase the chances of it happening, though, if we convince the company that no matter what they do, they lose. In that case, they might decide to keep the costs of porting and spend them on new features for a Windows-only ZB4. I’m hoping this doesn’t happen, because that decision might guide other companies’ plans.

And lastly, about the recurrent statement that Pix doesn’t care about Mac. That’s adolescent nonsense and I wish people would stop saying it. There are a lot of companies out there who don’t care about Macs. Softimage is probably one of them. Lots of game makers surely fit this category. But Pix has been working over a year to deliver a product. The delay isn’t because they don’t care. It’s because things haven’t been going well. The fact that they kept at it means they DO care. The fact that they’ve stopped giving us predictions about when ZB Mac isn’t part of that equation one way or the other. Like I say, I think they tried making predictions, and that didn’t work out, and now they’ve simply decided not to make further predictions in public. If that’s the case, then trying to bait them into a reply is adolescent and counter-productive.

Maybe they might have made us happier if they’d have talked about the code-level issues they were having. Remember that there’s more than just us out here. The programmers have a peer group, too, and they might not be happy about publicizing their travails. Plus, it could give solace to the enemy, or worse, give clues to ZB secrets. It’s a lot harder to blaze a new trail than it is to follow along once someone has shown you the path. A little hint might be a lot.

And maybe the reason you can’t get a prediction is nobody in Pix can either. The programmers may be so frustrated that they won’t give predictions to anyone. I doubt that’s it, though.

I think that people at Pixologic just looked at all the angst and said, “Why don’t we just change and do like Blizzard does: ‘We’ll release it when it’s ready’? People get impatient, but they’re happily impatient. People aren’t hating on Blizzard because a game isn’t out yet.” That’s what I think the silence is about, at any rate. And yes, I see where the analogy between Pix and Blizzard falls down. I still think that’s what the silence is about, though.

I’m eager to use ZB, too. I’ve bought every ZB book I can get my hands on, and I’ve bought several ZB training vids. It bothers me that there are people improving their skills, leaving me behind. Maybe I could buy a PC just to run ZB on it. A lot of people can’t. If you’re one of the ones who can, please don’t bait the ones who can’t.

Peace, friends. :slight_smile:
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Sometimes it gets taken off and left in the dumpster.

Ya know, I don’t know if it’s the lack of dates as much as the lack of open communication. It reminds me of an episode of Malcolm in the Middle, where the youngest brother is inadvertently placed in the class for mental kids. The younger brother is wanting to learn, wanting to work, etc, but whenever he asks the teacher if they’re going to do anything today he gets outright ignored, or his questions receive incredibly false answers. IE, “Why does a police siren get quieter when it gets further away?”, answer “Because you’re brain is messed up, get back to reading your coloring book.”
This is how a lot of us feel. We pose a legitimate question, nobody answers it. We pose it again, again, no answer. Only when we start throwing fits and spitting on people does Aurick show up to tell us to shut up and go back to reading our coloring books.

I think you made so many great points in your post, I will just quote the whole thing in my reply :slight_smile: . I feel like Pixo made the right choice. That’s one nice thing about the fact that it’s a private company, they can do what they want. Thank you for such an eloquent and thoughtful post. :sunglasses: