Zbrush At Siggraph - From My Perspective - Day 12

[voodoomonkey]

Yay, rejoice man life is good.
If I cracked you up that’s great.
Did you know, that it’s takes less muscles to smile than to frown.
I of course have on idea when it will come out.
But X-mas would be nice… :lol:
The world is a crappy place and there are better things to get all worked up about.
Be careful of the dark side, it’s dark.
Cheers
Cesar Dacol Jr.
Aka, The Voodoo Monkey

[xixaxAP]

Ahh, well no fear friend. Definitely not worked up. hehe, just commenting.

[JPalmer]

………, Let me state right up front that I don’t normally jump into strings like this one with long diatribes, but this time I feel a need to voice an opinion (of which I will explain).

I certainly do not want to offend or berate anyone, and I very definitely believe in ones right to an opinion. Having said that, I think that we’ve reached a saturation point on the whole ‘when, what, who’s and why’s’ of the release date issue. BUT, I (and, I am quite confident a few thousand others) still wish to see what this thread was intended for, and that is Ryan’s info, video’s and other attendee’s input from Siggragh.

I was unable to attend this year, I love hearing the new thoughts, contributions, and just general banter about these things. THAT’S what this thread was about.

Please, if you are angry, disappointed, or just plain don’t like what Pixologic is doing, write them and let the rest of us enjoy our simple pleasures.

Thank you all for listening.

J.

[troy1617]

hey ryan i was wondering if you could give us some moreinformation about zcasting is this going to be smmilar to a zscript or willl these be live broadcasting over the internet please elaborate more on this when you get a chance!! thanks!!!

[VirtualFM]

Hi All!

I loved those videos and still am picking the jaw from the floor, but I would like to know something: So, 22 Million Polys in realtime, right, but with what system? Wich Graphics card do I need to be bale to run this amount of polys?

TIA.
FM

[Ctrl-Z]

It’s true that you will do what you need to make money using software, but companies should be wary when they’re forcing someone to do that, as the customer is likely (like water) to take the path of least resistance as soon as the alternative presents itsefl.

Well said.

Pixologic has had to make, and continues to make, some very hard decisions. I'm sure they lose potential sales each day new platforms aren't supported. I'm also sure they know this. If existing customers stray, free upgrades will at least bring those users back. Which in turn draws co-workers' attention, and with any luck, new sales resume. If they can release in the next few months, I think word of mouth will set all of this right. But, it is a gamble. Just as we as individuals need to deal with "what is" while steering towards "what should be," so must Pixologic. If this means losing some customers, they're facing the threat bravely. And if that's the path of least resistance for them, I can only imagine how rough the alternate routes must have been!

Respectfully, I disagree with the choice to release more videos.

No longer an option. The post you’re replying to promised one more. If Ryan doesn’t deliver, you know all hell’s going to break loose.

Likewise, letting Siggraph go past without a solid presentation of new material would have been disasterous. Your reasoning is otherwise sound. I've said for a while now that Pixologic's problem was not in falling behind schedule, but in promising one to begin with. If they had never so much as <i>mentioned</i> ZBrush 2.5, I think most of us (whose platforms haven't shifted, anyway) would be thrilled with 2.0. Thrilled! Last year's plugins added huge functionality boosts, the available training just keeps getting better, and users still extend ZB's functionality every day by sharing new techniques they discover. I know my <b>only</b> complaints in that alternate reality would be:

• we still don't have a proper SDK
(so, no third-party support for alternate input devices, and no corresponding market push -- we'd all be using inexpensive haptic pens by now if that were different)
• it's 2006 and we still don't have flying cars
(not Pixologic's fault exactly, but if anyone can deliver those, I say it's them)
• it's seriously time to support the new platforms.

That last one's sort of a wildcard. No one could have predicted the twists and turns that Apple and Microsoft have taken. But, now that it's come to a head, alternate-reality Pixologic would be in a less volatile position to start releasing hints of the new version. Anyway, none of that matters now. What's done is done. They can be more cautious with the <i>next</i> version, but right now, I think they're handling this admirably well.

To release videos, and then go silent for weeks or even months would leave a very, very bad taste in my mouth and possibly many more. It would have been much better to just hold on to the cool info and announce it all at once than it was to do this.

Ah, but what if they considered this, and don’t plan to go silent for months or even weeks?

What if it <b>isn't</b> a tease?

They have some good momentum going, and a real opportunity to repair some damage here. Let’s stand back and see what happens.

[billrobertson42]

There is one more coming. Mesh projection. I was wore out from Siggraph and video editing and other preparations so I just needed a little more time before I put it together for ya. I will post it here when its done.

Thanks for asking.

Ryan

I’m interested in seeing what that’s about.

The Mesh Extraction looks like a nicely evolved feature from the original videos, or is it something different altogether? Also, are the other features shown in those videos evolved? Similar to what was shown originally? Gone?

Can you even answer these questions?

Anyway, get some rest.

[pumeco]

There is one more coming. Mesh projection. I was wore out from Siggraph and video editing and other preparations so I just needed a little more time before I put it together for ya. I will post it here when its done.

Thanks for asking.

Ryan

Thanks for the heads-up, Ryan

I’m not sure what “Mesh Projection” is exactly, but I’ve no doubt it’ll be excellent.
I’m enjoying the videos, and look forward to the new one.

[Plakkie]

Yeeee! More vids! (or: one more vid!) I would like to be teased too.
Personally, I don’t mind to get a sneak preview at things that I will get eventually without paying a penny. Rather sooner then later, ofcourse.

Thanks in advance Ryan!

[xixaxAP]

Ah, but what if they considered this, and don't plan to go silent for months or even weeks? What if it <b>isn't</b> a tease?

They have some good momentum going, and a real opportunity to repair some damage here. Let’s stand back and see what happens.

I’m all for it. In fact, I expect that they hvae some bright people over there (evidenced by their product) who surely would have gone through this very thought process. So I’m hoping, very much hoping, that they do in fact release something “soon” that is solid, or become much more conversational with us so that we’re at the least kept abreast of the situation.

BTW: Thanks for replying without assuming I dislike Pixologic or Zbrush, as neither is the case at all. It’s good to find other level headed people to talk with, even if their viewpoints don’t completely align with your own.

[Ctrl-Z]

Thanks for replying without assuming I dislike Pixologic or Zbrush, as neither is the case at all. It’s good to find other level headed people to talk with, even if their viewpoints don’t completely align with your own.

Synergy’s fun that way. Comparing the view from alternate vantage points gives us a more complete picture than either one of us can see seperately. And yes, you’ve given me much to think about yourself.

[skuby]

Ryan,

Respectfully, I disagree with the choice to release more videos. As one of your customers, until a release date can be given, these do not provide anything more than a tease.

I completely agree. And my gut feeling is that it’s going to be many months before 2.5 ever sees the light of day. The videos and whatnot just make it harder to wait for it’s release.

[Ctrl-Z]

So, 22 Million Polys in realtime, right, but with what system? Which Graphics card do I need to be able to run this amount of polys?

That’s a very good question. At this time, we can only speculate (ie, don’t expect an announcement), because the software is still in development and too much could change between now and release.

That said... ZBrush 2.0 doesn't care what video card you use, because no card is optimized for Pixol technology. The tricks that ZBrush uses (to facilitate so many more polygons than any other software) are helped only by the speed of your processor, and the amount of RAM at your disposal. Mostly. The ZMapper plugin (currently PC only) does use OpenGL to display low-res versions of your object with high definition normal maps as they would appear in a game engine. That plugin is affected by the speed of your video card, and there <i>is</i> a possibility ZBrush 2.5 will do more with that. Maybe. So, should you look for a videocard which accells in OpenGL? Not necessarily. There were reports last year that Windows Vista brings dramatic performance issues to OpenGL, such that Pixologic would be forced to re-write that code for Direct3D. <i>(thus making it all the more ironic that there isn't a Mac version. No OpenGL problems there!)</i> Then again, [the word at this time](http://www.khronos.org/developers/library/siggraph2006/OpenGL_BOF/NVIDIA_-_OpenGL_on_Vista.ppt) is more optimistic for OpenGL support in Vista, so maybe not. For all that is known, we really know nothing. Right now, I would say you should concentrate on CPU and RAM. It's been hinted in this thread that a 64 bit processor, because it allows for more RAM than it's 32 bit counterpart, can handle upwards of 40 million polygons. I don't know whether your current machine can handle 22 million or not, but if I were saving for an upgrade, that would definitely be my focus. :sunglasses:

[SpaceMan]

Yea more vids please
I would like to have one of Offer in a vr suit using ZBrush:D

[Buckie]

It could be… late 2007, mid 2008, early 2009.

I think if this were the case, this forum would be a very empty place indeed, the update is coming as soon as it’s finished.
I hope that it’s within’ the next 6 months, but if not they will be plenty of other options out there by then to choose from…

And yes to more vids from me…

[VirtualFM]

  Right now, I would say you should concentrate on CPU and RAM.  It's been hinted in this thread that a 64 bit processor, because it allows for more RAM than it's 32 bit counterpart, can handle upwards of 40 million polygons.  I don't know whether your current machine can handle 22 million or not, but if I were saving for an upgrade, that would definitely be my focus.   :sunglasses: 

Thank you very much for your answer. It clarified me because, being a newbie to ZBrush, I didn’t know about those tricks (I should have suspected though, silly me!). Great stuff! 64 bits then! Great, start saving for a Core 2 Pentium!

[freshdb]

Just watched the video’s, amazing stuff, congrats to the pixologic team on a great update! I wish I could have been to siggraph, hopefully next year.

[Dash_Riprock]

I completely agree. And my gut feeling is that it’s going to be many months before 2.5 ever sees the light of day. The videos and whatnot just make it harder to wait for it’s release.

Anyone familiar with Terragen2’s belated release can understand that. I’m so sick of caring, I’ve stopped checking Planetside’s website.

As for ZB2, I’m excited about its release. Judging by Ryan’s videos, I think the new features are really going to knock our socks off. I’m also excited about the impending competition from Mudbox3d. Pixologic’s been doing some great work so far, but just think of how zesty production is going to be when there’s competition in the air.

[billrobertson42]

I just watched the new video.

Wow, pretty darn cool.

[ryankingslien]

I have updated the first post in this thread to include a new movie showing the new Mesh Projection feature of the new ZBrush. This feature allows you to shrinkwrap geometery from one model to another with completely different topology and edge flow.

Enjoy!

Ryan