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ZBrush 3.5 Status?

ZBrush Usage Questions
#161

This reasoning is beyond idiotic.

When I buy a new car I expect it to fire on all cylinders. When I buy a refrigerator I expect the freezer compartment to work as well. I have the right to expect full advertised functionality right from day one, and not hope that I’ll get it at some indeterminate future date. I expect the same from software.

There was no indication on Pixologic’s online store that the MAC version was missing features. They refused my reasonable request to exchange my MAC license for a PC license. I had to email every Pixologic email address I could find before I even got a response from them. Then they gave me link to a 30 day eval version of zbrush 3.0 - not even 3.1.

I can understand bugs in software. I’ve been living with that for 15 years. What I can’t tolerate is a company that treats it’s customers with utter contempt. It’ll take a lot to remove Pixologic from this organization’s blacklist.

W

#162

Zbrush is pipeline friendly . . it’s just choosy about who its friends are. :stuck_out_tongue:
-K

#163

ZBrush IS pipeline friendly. I think, here most of the guys quickly get accustomed to use it and except few problems, we are loving it. I think that blaming the tool is blaming the artist itself. Opinions, bug reports, feature requests are OK, but I’m really tired of reading how ZBrush sucks, and not friendly, and crap, etc.

#164

Unless you’re using the latest mac version :slight_smile:

#165

And that is when its not the artest fault, the very basic core feature that Zbrush needs for being a pipeline tool, isnt working, displacment export.

For PC in the most its totaly usable, but not all features are tuned to work as they should yet. Not smoothing the Uvs for texture export , symmetry, is two of these.

Zbrush 2 caused me less issues, because it had less features, and the core basics worked.

As far as the pros and big studios go, iv seen what kind of things have been used for regarding pipeline. form, Detailing, and displacment and normal export. They have the big boys toys so they only have to use Zbrush for what its best at. When artest try to use ZB for all its features of course more bugs and problems are going to be found.

While there are many workarounds, these take time to descover, or even find them, often being directed to a thread with 400 posts in it. If you have a box of toys then its easyer to dodge around problems.

#166

I hate to say I told you so but the Mac users were pushing for a release before it was ready, they got the release, and now they’re complaining it’s not fully baked. Can’t have it both ways in this world. I understand that you’re only artists trying to make a living.

The problem for the developers of ZBrush (I am guessing) is that it takes major skill, at all levels, to develop an application like ZBrush. The various export displacement features are some of the most innovative and groundbreaking implementations in the industry. As with any application that abstracts such complicated processes from the user, there are going to be bugs in the beginning. I know you guys understand this based on the posts here lately but I thought it was worth some credit and recognition where due.

I am really looking forward to an HD geometry displacement exporter. This might be what caused the in-flux displacement functionality in the mac release. I dunno since I haven’t tried it yet.

#167

Lol, only someone who didn’t have to wait so long to start using ZB again would say that :wink:
There is something fundamentally wrong when those of us who have waited politely and patiently for YEARS get talked down to in such a way.
I know my impatience is simply down to the fact that I just miss having the things I used to have in ZB2. But on the bright side, once this version is finally released we should all be back on track again yipee!

#168

While I can agree with some of your sentiment, it remains a fact that key elements of normal and displacement map generation in ZB3.12 are defective. (Defective enough that we use PCs to generate all our maps, because of acknowledged defects in ZB 3.12.) You simply cannot generate a decent displacement whether you are a talent artists with 5 years+ of ZB under the belt or a tyro using the product for the first time. On the other end of the pipeline, ZB’s importation of .objs for the purposes of carrying in UVs or just updating base meshes, is, to be kind, problematic. Yes, it can be worked around–most of the time. The sad thing is that it can be very time consuming, and is pretty straight forwardly solved with software.

-K

#169

…and even after those bugs and workarounds, is ZBrush still not a hell of a deal for under $600 with free upgrades? Relatively speaking, if you can’t make that back with what is working, then good luck. You can easily turn a profit just painting in 2d with the deco brush. Not that it’s a common use for ZBrush, just sayin nobody sold their vital organs or struck oil to afford such an awesome toolset. So a couple bugs are being worked out. Good. 3.5 oughtta be the sh…

#170

…and even after those bugs and workarounds, is ZBrush still not a hell of a deal for under $600 with free upgrades?
I think most of us do acknowledge the fact that zbrush is an awesome software. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t problems with it. Yes, it’s very much worth the $600. Hell, I’d pay five times as much if they just fix all the problems once and for all. It’ll eventually save any studio more money than that to have a perfectly functioning software for the artists. Again, not exactly complaining here(well, maybe a little), I use zbrush daily and can’t function without it :wink:

#171

Of course. That’s not the statement. The statement was Zbrush is “pipeline friendly”, which to be kind, it is not. Moreover, it was promoted with pipeline friendly features which, sadly Pixologic did not deliver. Rather Pixologic sheepishly announced on their web forums that they were now calling the product a “transitional” version. Moreover, assurances, both public and private to remedy these issues have made, and disregarded with seemingly little regard for the clients to which these assurances were made. Pixologic is, regretably, buying their own troubles here. No one made them promise ZB 3.5 for 2008. No one made them promise “more information” in Q1 2009. These sort of PR mis-steps are purely on their own nickle, raising customer expectations and dashing them with equal ease.

Is Zbrush utiilizable for a lot of things? Certainly. Is it well suited for for sculpting and a 2.5D style of illustation? Absolutely. Is it “Pipeline Friendly”? Tolerable on a PC, impossible on a Mac (I use both–this message for example is from my sculpting laptop running Vista64.)

-K

#172

SAV, history repeats itself. The PC users went through the same thing as the Mac users back in the 2.0 times. I am not talking down but just looking for rational disagreement and the slipping deadlines are synonymous with the times here… Now is the time to be thankful to have anything at all.

#173

Sorry pals, I’m a PC user, so I am not really aware of Mac problems…

#174

Er, except that document resize is broken, so not for print you can’t (oh, I should probably insert ‘at least not without some workaround’).

The deal at the moment-
No export of pipeline image maps.
Transforming the canvas crashes regularly.
Document size change crashes regularly.
Using transposer drag masking crashes regularly.
Using Zspheres to make simple objects crashes regularly.
Many more which don’t spring to mind at the moment.

So basically once your deadline has long passed and you’ve persisted through any workaround that might take a few days each to find, and providing you do your final render in ZBrush which is (no offence) rarely sufficient for most of us or our clients, yes, you can use it commercially to recoup you costs :slight_smile:

I agree, it is an amazing tool at an amazing price - a price we appear to have only paid once - and I very much look forward to getting back to where we were with ZB2, which still had problems, but you know, there were workarounds.

#175

No worries, I do apologise for dragging myself into this, I shall desist!
Just frustration because I like the software so much and being told we’re just whining for no apparent reason sent me over a tad hehe.

#176

08-13-2008
Message posted by Aurick
Title “News regarding ZBrush 3.5”

Hello everyone! SIGGRAPH is in full swing, and we know that everyone is hungry for ZBrush news. While a much larger announcement with more details will be coming after SIGGRAPH, we did want to share some information with the ZBC community as soon as possible.


  • The next release of ZBrush will be Version 3.5.
    • >
  • Version 3.5 will be released in the fourth quarter of 2008.
    • >
  • ZBrush 3.5 will be a FREE upgrade to all registered users (PC and Mac).
    • >
  • This will be the first unified version of ZBrush. That means that it will be released concurrently for Windows and Mac (Intel).
    • >
Obviously, there are new features in store, as well. More will be shared about this in the announcement after SIGGRAPH and in the upcoming months.

I believe this was the last official announcement regarding ZBrush 3.5. While I appreciate that Pixologic is taking their time and try to deliver a good solid product. They should make sure that the timetables they give themselves stick or do what Remedy has done with their game release dates “When it’s done!”

Rgds,
Timo

#177

“When it’s done!” is the approach that we have adopted at this point, which is why that was the last official time frame that we gave. Since then, I’ve only stated that the next version is being beta tested. I don’t expect to be saying more until it’s a solid release date.

When you’re pioneering, surprises are a certainty. Those surprises (many of which are good, by the way) do tend to play havoc with timetables. So we have adopted a policy of having internal dates that we’re working toward but not making info public until it’s ready.

#178

I don’t think anyone is asking for a specific realease date, Aurrick… we’ve been left without even a bone tossed to use for 4 months now.

You guys know what new features you are going to be adding… it takes forever to learn a ton of new goodies… would it be so bad to start the zclassroom things for them in advance of the release?

Eager people could start boning up in advance, and you guys are planning on doing it anyway, and all the noise about delays and expectations of your customers would be partially quelled.

#179

Hmmmm, I’m not having any of these problems. Are these also common issue amongst 3.12 users?

I do modo rendering often, but I mainly just use ZBrush and Photoshop. Simply because 2.5d post detailing is amazing for illustration. When doing a final render, I’ll resize a new canvas to 4000 wide, drag the scene into it in 2.5d, and choose my angle outside of edit mode with the widget thing. After the render passes, I’ll also jump back and do a bunch of insanely small 2.5 detailon a duplicated layer, then render out passes again. I comp it all in Photoshop in two groups, blending the different detail with masks. Which also means that I’m really hoping for some new 2.5d tools in 3.5. (hint, hint…)

I have had some crashes, though. Some near the end of renders, some just random, but not any with what you mentioned. Weird. Hope they get it all worked out for us in 3.5. :+1:

#180

I am aware of the issues you speak of as I use a Mac myself. There are work arounds out there, not ideal for everyone I know but like I said ZB 3 was free so I ain’t complaining…:stuck_out_tongue: