ZBrushCentral

Thread Regarding Maxon Transition

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#23

Oh, didn’t post for a very long time.

There is nothing one can do.
As a German, it feels a bit unexpected that a German 3D company buys an US 3D iconic software. On the other hand C4D has it’s place in motion design, mapping and so so many other parts. What scares me is that Maxon is a 100% daughter of Nemetschek, another German company since 2018. They are focused on architectural software………do you guys get this soulless Autodesk vibes??

Maxon already acquired Red Giant and my loved Trapcode Suite. They acquired Forger, a small sculpting app for IOS, just to send my version into “no support Death Valley “ and opening a new app with almost nothing additional than C4D connectivity and……subscription.

Being really hit hard by pandemic lock downs, subscriptions are simply scaring me so much. I am already in that trap from other companies. It’s a nightmare as soon as your business gets into pandemic trouble.

I really do hope it’s all getting fine for you guys. I mean, some of you are almost like friends or relatives I “know” for such a long time . All the best from my side.
Btw. I am really missing Joseph Drust for quite some time already, such a handsome person.
But haven’t been here very often last years.
Wish you happy holidays and a tremendous new year, hopefully……

4 Likes
#24

Can the community do something about this!! I just join the zbrush community, and love zbrush (price, feature and not too high demand on hardware). I am a Truespace user ages again, and switch to blender (no money to spend on all those hardware hungry, and super expensive software). It’s really a very sad day for zbrush user, and going back to figuring out blender again!!) (Words in my mind when I find out this is going to happening, Fxxk, shxt, FXXK, FXXK…!!!)

4 Likes
#25

Sad to see one of the few good things left in the 3D world end up under the heel of Maxon with their subscriptions and outrageous prices. All that goodwill that Pixologic earned through the years thrown down the toilet. Thanks for that shitty Christmas present…

7 Likes
#26

I’m sharing the concerns of all Zbrush users about the future. I don’t know what it will become after the “New Dawn”. We still don’t have all the details so we pragmatically speculate for the worse.

Zbrush is more than a software for me. When all was desperate, and I had my fair share of despair, I had at least one thing to wait for : the last version of Zbrush.For me It is a humbling experience, a different take on UI, a masterpiece of software development, an example for innovation management and have an enthusiast user/fan base.

Digital sculpting wasn’t even a thing when it started, and more 20 years after the first version, it’s an industry standard and it’s still the best thanks to the awesome work of Ofer Alon and is team. They seemed to have a long term plan to make it grow filling a box of feature, year after year. And I grew with it as a person and as an artist. I learned a lot with Zbrush. Thank you Guys.

There’s some big technological challenges coming at the horizon of this “New Dawn” and things will be different but if there’s one thing that Zbrush learned us to do, is to manage the difference.

3 Likes
#27

Years ago Maxon didn’t allow you to upgrade after a few years have past, if indeed you hadn’t bought the last few upgrades. Which forces one to buy a full version if you wanted to have a path for upgrades again.
I just hope Maxon doesn’t become even more arrogant and act like they saved Zbrush.

5 Likes
#28

I first learned Zbrush in a college class. It was an amazing experience, and digitally transferred the sculpting of the real world. However, when I started working personally, I had been sculpting using Blender, an open source free program due to a tight budget. Blender has a pretty good sculpting feature and can do most of the work, but it lacks some features compared to Zbrush and has a lower maximum polygon count to work with. Then, at the last summit discount, I was finally able to purchase a perpetual license for Zbrush. It was a hefty expense, but nonetheless all users appreciated Pixologic’s upgrade policy, so I didn’t worry and believed it. But I am very sad to hear this news today. The Zbrush I wanted was not something I had to pay for monthly. I’ve used Maxon’s cinema 4d to create motion graphics a few times, and I’m quite impressed with its capabilities, but I don’t like their pricing and acquisition history. They acquired Forger, a sculpting app for tablets, discontinued updates by classifying their existing perpetual licenses as ‘Forger Classic’, and announced a new Forger, available only with a new monthly payment license. After hearing the news of the acquisition of zbrush, Blender developers said they would accelerate the development of the sculpting feature. (Link) I might have to consider using Blender for sculpting again. :disappointed_relieved:

4 Likes
#29

I’m sad to see Pixologic go to Maxon. I was a long-time user of C4D but constant price hikes on perpetual licenses and the move to force more subscriptions put me off and let my licenses lapse in favor of other solutions. (Not that I didn’t like C4D, but the cost and support issues left me behind.) I’ve used Zbrush since 1.5b, but I can see the writing on the wall once Maxon gets their hands on it. I’m predominately a hobbyist these days, but Zbrush was a truly unique product and I’ll be sad to see it go the way of all other small unique products–that is to be buried in some all-encompasing, expensive suite where it will slowly languish.

Can’t honestly see the upside for Zbrush license holders. Having worked with Maxon before, I’d be wary to get caught in another investment treadmill. The “we’re all sworn to silence” approach to acquisition leaves me cold. If this was truly good news for the community, they would be hitting the news from the highest rooftops. My only hope is that we can keep the current rev of Zbursh, at least for a little longer before Maxon sweeps in. I feel fairly certain that Maxon didn’t buy Zbrush to continue to hand out free updates and watching how they monetized C4D loyalty, I can only cringe imagining how they will handle Zbrush.

8 Likes
#30

This leaves me with a feeling of intense dread. I don’t know C4D, but a vibrant & truly creative community can only exist when software is financially accessible. (looking at you Blender) Thanks to free upgrades ZB has been that sort of space. We grow so much here because of the sharing of resources and knowledge & because no one is getting locked out.
Every program that finds a wonderful niche & then gets bought by a big fish seems to be doomed.
I realize Maxon isn’t Autodesk but it still feels worrying.
A bit off topic but I’m keeping an eye on digital sculpting Apps. Nomad is so good & it seems like that arena might be the new frontier down the road. Plus there is no big cost barrier at the gate.

3 Likes
#31

Until Nomad is bought out by Autodesk, Adobe or Maxon.
Plus sculpting on an i-Pad is NOT a good alternative for many of us. my eyes hurt when i look at my SWITCH for too long, now imagine trying to do that for LONG periods of time? no thank you. it looks like it’ll be the High Seas, or Blender for me. cause eventually the 2022.2 won’t work with Windows 10 or 11, or whatever. or Maxon might just kill our Licenses. i love Zbrush enough im even willing to pay for Updates, but paying $94.00/mo or billed annually – $59.91/mo is NOT going to happen. Zbrush could do the sculpting FOR ME and id tell them to take a Hike, for that price. and that’s EXACTLY how much Cinema 4D costs per month. Morons. Utter Morons.

2 Likes
#32

If the guys at PIXOLOGIC taught us one thing over the last years: They are always supportive, passionated about their ZBrush baby and always surprised us with new “free” upgrades - so maybe we should all stop crying before we even know any more facts…
I don’t think they would easily throw their baby under a bus…

We should be thankful for all what they did in the past and stop complaining before we even know further details.
They always said (here and there) that free upgrades might disappear one day.
Well each year they pushed ZBrush to another level and yet never charged a dime.
Thank you for that!

How can they survive if no money comes in - except of from new users.
At some point they have to - to survive and be able to keep going.

Me too is hoping for free upgrades to continue though - but I also understand the other side.

Let’s see what they are up to and maybe - just maybe - we will all be surprised once again.

4 Likes
#33

@VISEone I don’t think anyone is saying anything against the developers at Pixologic. I think people’s concern is that once they are owned by a different company, they won’t be able to make all the decisions themselves. They won’t be the people chosing the pricing. It will be Maxon as a company deciding that, not the developers of ZBrush.

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#34

@ SBMONGOOSEI agree with you. I could understand if Pixologic had told me I would have to pay for the next update. But being acquired by Maxon is an entirely different matter. In the future, there will be no Pixologic and Zbrush as we know them.All will proceed as determined in Maxon’s business interests. They’ve already acquired several pieces of software, discontinued perpetual licenses from Redgiant and Forger, and started monthly subscriptions. This is the future that awaits us. We can’t do anything but hope that Maxon will only show mercy to old Zbrush users. Or just start learning Blender! :smiley:

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#35

I don’t think anybody here has anything but respect for the pixologic staff. Our problems lie with the company that bought them and who will make the decisions from now on.

Many of us would have been more than okay with paying for upgrades if pixologic came out and asked for more money after 2 decades of goodwill to the user base.

Now if Maxon is gonna ask for more money that is just gonna leave a bad taste in everybody’s mouth given how profit driven maxon is and how little they care about the products they sell.

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#36

@VISEone

I don’t think anyone is complaining, and especially about Pixologic or ZBrush. We are just “worried” about the outcome that is to follow. You will notice that most posts are against Maxon and their pricing policy. We all love Pixologic and ZBrush and appreciate everything that they have done for us over the years.

3 Likes
#37

+1

@VISEone
I don’t think anyone is begrudging the Pixologic team the right to make a living and reap the rewards from their unique and powerful product. I’ve even playfully suggested to them that they need to create some model where they can get a little funding from those of us who have benefited so long from their generous free update policy.

The concern you are hearing is based on two considerations: 1) Maxon’s current pricing policies and their approach to monetizing perpetual license customers and 2) The roadmap now being in control of an entity which may not be as laser focused on artist requirements as Pixologic has demonstrated over the past two decades.

For those of us who work creatively Zbrush every day these are matters of practical concern. With the announcement so short on specifics, it leaves a lot open to speculation. The concern we’re hearing from the community is born out of love and appreciation for Pixologic, not of disrespect.

6 Likes
#38

I also agree with everything replied above.
I just trust and cross my fingers that they (pixologic) know what they are doing.
And all concerns regarding a creedy software brand might be right because of Maxon is Maxon - but at this point noone really knows what will be…

let’s hope the best.

1 Like
#39

It would be useful to refer to Maxon’s current pricing policy. This will help us predict the future of Zbrush. - CGISoftware_MSRP_MM211019 (mediamachine.nl)

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#40

The worst Christmas ever… :slight_smile:

Somewhere deep inside I still do have a hope, that the pricing won’t be that hardcore for the hobbyists.

6 Likes
#41

@toyxyz
Thanks for the price list table. The US price lists were similar in proportion but lifted in amounts for dollars. (The US perpetual license for C4D is $3495.)

It’s worth noting is to version upgrade a perpetual license of C4D from R23 or later to R25 is 29% of a new perpetual license, which is greater than a year of just subscribing. If you fall off their perpetual license treadmill, they really sock it to you with a whopping 62% of a new perpetual license to get back on.

An annual subscription runs about 21% of a perpetual license, so five years of subscribing is more or less the equivalent of one, un-upgraded version of the perpetual license. Assuming you get 1 yr. of free updates with your perpetual license, you’d need to another 80% (or more) in maintenance costs to keep your perpetual license up to date over five years.

For five years of C4D use, this means you’re at somewhere north of 180% of the perpetual license cost for the privilege of a perpetual license and 100 to 105% of the perpetual license cost to just subscribe. (Admittedly you’re vulnerable to price increases by subscribing, but I am assuming they will similarly raise the maintenance prices.)

Unless you use C4D all the time, they are driving you to a subscription. If you start adding Redshift and Red Giant into the mix, the Maxon One subscription looks to be a better 5-year deal. My fear is with the conspicuous lack of details in the Pixologic acquisition, they’re thinking similar.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, but having done business with Maxon for more than a decade and lived through their monetization shifts from reasonably priced upgrades to Maxon Service Agreement (now discontinued) to subscribe-or-pay-through-the-nose regardless of how little development for the year (the current model), I am not hopeful. I think this acquisition will be very good for people in the Maxon universe where C4D is their main platform, but sadly for artists, hobbyists, or anyone where C4D is not their main platform, it’s likely to be a loss in terms of costs.

Since Pixologic doesn’t discuss roadmap (nor do I expect them to start now) only future will be able to say if there is more or less investment in functionality over the next five years. My bet is that functionality will continue to improve for at least while, but tilt into the Maxon universe. Maxon would be crazy to blow this chance to get into more developers & studios where Zbrush is already a sculpting mainstay.

I sincerely hope Maxon will prove me wrong, and this will mark a new phase of artist-friendly pricing, support, and development.

5 Likes
#42

MY Question is: How sad is it everyone HATES Autodesk, when they give you FREE Licenses for learning in School, AND INDIE License Pricing of $280 a YEAR. where as Maxon is either "Pay us $3500 for Perpetual, and apparently (or so im told) $999 a year FOR UPDATES “Which ive heard are almost non existent” or $95 a MONTH for a Sub. knowing more people use Zbrush than C4D, what do we all really think Maxon has in store for us? SANE Prices for Upgrades or Subs? LOL yeah, that’ll be the day. i would have rather paid Pixologic $900 a YEAR for them to keep it in their camp, than give Maxon $20 a month. that’s how much i hate Maxon for what they’ve already shown us they’re capable of.
Also here is an Article calling us all Out for “Loving Zbrush so much, but DEMANDING it have free updates”
i guess they haven’t read any of our posts on ZBC, Youtube, Twitter or anywhere else BEGGING Zbrush to cancel the merger and just charge us for updates.

5 Likes