Thread Regarding Maxon Transition

[Kerwin]

@toyxyz
Thanks for the price list table. The US price lists were similar in proportion but lifted in amounts for dollars. (The US perpetual license for C4D is $3495.)

It’s worth noting is to version upgrade a perpetual license of C4D from R23 or later to R25 is 29% of a new perpetual license, which is greater than a year of just subscribing. If you fall off their perpetual license treadmill, they really sock it to you with a whopping 62% of a new perpetual license to get back on.

An annual subscription runs about 21% of a perpetual license, so five years of subscribing is more or less the equivalent of one, un-upgraded version of the perpetual license. Assuming you get 1 yr. of free updates with your perpetual license, you’d need to another 80% (or more) in maintenance costs to keep your perpetual license up to date over five years.

For five years of C4D use, this means you’re at somewhere north of 180% of the perpetual license cost for the privilege of a perpetual license and 100 to 105% of the perpetual license cost to just subscribe. (Admittedly you’re vulnerable to price increases by subscribing, but I am assuming they will similarly raise the maintenance prices.)

Unless you use C4D all the time, they are driving you to a subscription. If you start adding Redshift and Red Giant into the mix, the Maxon One subscription looks to be a better 5-year deal. My fear is with the conspicuous lack of details in the Pixologic acquisition, they’re thinking similar.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, but having done business with Maxon for more than a decade and lived through their monetization shifts from reasonably priced upgrades to Maxon Service Agreement (now discontinued) to subscribe-or-pay-through-the-nose regardless of how little development for the year (the current model), I am not hopeful. I think this acquisition will be very good for people in the Maxon universe where C4D is their main platform, but sadly for artists, hobbyists, or anyone where C4D is not their main platform, it’s likely to be a loss in terms of costs.

Since Pixologic doesn’t discuss roadmap (nor do I expect them to start now) only future will be able to say if there is more or less investment in functionality over the next five years. My bet is that functionality will continue to improve for at least while, but tilt into the Maxon universe. Maxon would be crazy to blow this chance to get into more developers & studios where Zbrush is already a sculpting mainstay.

I sincerely hope Maxon will prove me wrong, and this will mark a new phase of artist-friendly pricing, support, and development.

[Gremlin]

MY Question is: How sad is it everyone HATES Autodesk, when they give you FREE Licenses for learning in School, AND INDIE License Pricing of $280 a YEAR. where as Maxon is either "Pay us $3500 for Perpetual, and apparently (or so im told) $999 a year FOR UPDATES “Which ive heard are almost non existent” or $95 a MONTH for a Sub. knowing more people use Zbrush than C4D, what do we all really think Maxon has in store for us? SANE Prices for Upgrades or Subs? LOL yeah, that’ll be the day. i would have rather paid Pixologic $900 a YEAR for them to keep it in their camp, than give Maxon $20 a month. that’s how much i hate Maxon for what they’ve already shown us they’re capable of.
Also here is an Article calling us all Out for “Loving Zbrush so much, but DEMANDING it have free updates”
i guess they haven’t read any of our posts on ZBC, Youtube, Twitter or anywhere else BEGGING Zbrush to cancel the merger and just charge us for updates.

Maxon is busting at the seams; and the acquisition of ZBrush is just part of...

[Adde]

@Gremlin I also read that article and got really pissed. as you say, I do not think they have read a word of what has been written. I would happily pay pixologic for updates as far as I could handle. might not be able to afford to update and pay every year as I have this as a hobby. But writing that we demand free updates is just laughable. but I’m a little worried like many others that they will change to a monthly cost only. and if you look at what maxon has for prices now on c4d as an example, it is above my budget for this hobby. nerd that i am i write this with a pixologic zbrush t-shirt on me.

[zber2]

I would think that hobbyists would make up a good percentage of ZBrush users, but, in my estimation, once Maxon gets their hands on it, that percentage will drop drastically because most hobbyists won’t be able to afford Maxons exorbitant prices. I for one will not pay a single penny for using software on a subscription basis. I am just a hobbyists and even though I enjoy using ZBrush immensely, it’s not something that I cannot live without. I will just have to either settle for other sculpting software like Blender or just find a different hobby. I, like everybody else here, am greatly concerned for the outcome of this acquisition. I am hoping for the best, but honestly, expect that this will not end well for the hobbyist. I don’t think that Maxon has the artist in mind, only profit.

[toyxyz]

ZBER2
It’s not just hobbyists who can’t afford to pay for a monthly subscription. Small developers with few assets, freelancers who use several monthly paid programs besides Zbrush, etc. A monthly payment is a huge burden for them. Even if the function of the old version is sufficient and the update is not required, if the number of users of Windows 11 increases in the future, there is also a possibility that the old version of Zbrush will not work properly at some time. No one knows if Maxon will have mercy on us then. As you can see in the Maxon pricing I uploaded above, they charge a higher price to upgrade the old version than to upgrade directly from the previous version.

Cinema 4D R25 m2520 € 2,900.00
Cinema 4D R25 - Upgrade from Cinema 4D R23 m2521 € 850.00
Cinema 4D R25 - Upgrade from Cinema 4D Rxx m2522 € 1,800.00

[Gremlin]

I Just wish this would be over with, either Maxon is going to buy them out, they don’t get bought out, or Pixologic listens to the fans and backs out (Best outcome) i just want to know the length of Rope im about to be Hung with, and figure out the best Solution for this going forward. because i promise you, i am NOT sticking with just Blender. i bought a LIFE TIME LICENSE. and i will find a way for it to STAY a lifetime license, even if it means going to places on the internet i rather not go, and do things i rather not do. its out of MY hands at this point. but i will NOT give up on my lifes work because i cannot afford the upkeep/subs, all because Pixologic got Greedy at the end of 2021 for god knows what reason. im a fighter, ive been though a lot of crap in my life, and Maxon isn’t going to ruin my livelihood with their Greed. PERIOD.
but as i said, i just wish we knew were we stood already, cause the waiting is just as bad as the “WE’RE THRILLED TO ANNOUNCE WE’RE BEING TAKEN OVER BY A SOULESS CORPORATION!” Post.

[cg_S]

If there is one downside to this acquisition/merger, I feel like Pixologic is great at offering users what they don’t know what they want. I am afraid to see part of this fade away. I feel like maxon wants to make tools more production friendly but not necessarily creatively oriented.
I would’ve liked to have a seen pixologic bridge the current gap that exists between GAN and 3d models. And this would’ve lead to a reasonably successful business model as they would be selling GPU processing time combined with a custom 3d GAN solution. I love working with GAN tools to discover a concept but at the same time it is hard to find the 3d object in a 2D mess. If anyone was going to pull it off, it would be pixologic. Not to say that it can’t happen, just that the idea feels unproven and therefore is a risky business venture.

[sbmongoose]

Very slightly off topic, but wishing everyone here a very happy new year.
Please Pixologic, don’t make your users feel 2022 is as bad a year as 2020 and 2021, even if it’s for a very different reason! We’ve all had enough bad times over the last couple of years. Please don’t break our hearts with this next one!
But thank you Pixologic, you’ve been a shining beacon of goodness and fun in what has been a difficult couple of years. Your livestreams with @PixoPaul and @Piggyson were both entertaining and a great resource to help learn ZBrush better, when there wasn’t much else to do during long lockdown evenings. So if nothing else, thank you for the past 13 plus years (for me, more for some, less for others).

Happy New Year!!!

[KorayAtes]

Is this over yet? When can we expect an official statement?

[Rafal_Buchner]

A lot of weird things is happening right now:
I’ve just found that Zbrush is listed in a new Maxon’s EULA as software that will be available through perpetual licensing.
But what is weird it is that Zbrush is listed together with redshift, which (correct me if I am wrong) have been sold subscription-only since Maxon took it.

From what I understand we can say goodbye to free updates: but again: I could be wrong.

Still: I’m ok with paying for the updates, unless it won’t ruin me. I’m not a company making money on using ZBrush.

Link to EULA:

MAXON_EULA_EN_202112.pdf

[toyxyz]

Are you talking about Redgiant? Redgiant has stopped selling perpetual licenses and is only available as a monthly subscription. And it is possible for perpetual license holders to use their older versions. Of course, if you want to use the new version, you have to pay for a monthly subscription. This is most likely the future of Zbrush. Link

[sbmongoose]

ZBrush Transition to Maxon

Feels off that nothing has been announced here, even though it says since the 29th. Not the level of communication we’d have hoped for.

Oh, and another change, although the MyLicenses page still lists Pixologic ID, this is changing to ZBrush ID

https://support.pixologic.com/section/25-zbrush-id-formerly-pixologic-id

[zber2]

And so, it begins…

The following from License Types - ZBrush

[sbmongoose]

The wording is very strange though. What happens for perpetual licenses bought before the 29th Dec 2021?
(obviously I know as users we can only speculate for now).

[aurick]

Those purchased before that date will receive free upgrades for one year from date of purchase, as guaranteed when the purchase was made.

We will be sharing more information in the very near future. Once the regulatory approval process was completed, we were finally able to actually communicate with Maxon. We are now working out all the myriad details that need to be addressed so that we have accurate answers for the questions we know you have.

Bear with us just a little longer.

[CassiopeiaCentaury]

That is exactly how I feel. Zbrush will never be the same under Maxon because they will care about maximizing profits like any other company. I am sure by next year Paul will be gone and so will zbrush live and zbrush central… I feel so sad.

[Gremlin]

Thank you for at least being able to tell us that. also im sure many of us would just like to say, since this software. no. COMMUNITY means so much to us, we’ve all been heated and touchy over it, we just don’t want to see something many of us have worked so hard for brought down to nothing suddenly. we, well i can’t speak for everyone, but i know I myself have said some things i regret, but its all out of fear and despair… and some anger, certainly. but we ALL hope for the best… of course im sorry you’ve probably had to sit here and read us complaining every day as well. either way, just wanted to add my two cents about that as well…

[MetinSeven]

@Julian_K

With Pixologic however it was different. If there ever has been a company I felt genuine sympathy and loyalty for it was them and for a reason. Especially when many years ago I was lucky and honoured to be part of the beta testing for 2 releases, which gave me the opportunity to hear Ofer Alon talk about what he is working on in late night online meetings. The completely real, genuine passion and joy of working on enabling and supporting artistic creativity and freedom with his tools was tangible, when listening to him. The man is an absolute legend. In my humble opinion he did more good for the creative world and was responsible for more truly ground-breaking innovation than any Steve Jobs could have bragged about.
And add to that their decades long loyalty to even the earliest users with amazing update after update, the community they established, the People officially representing Zbrush with heart and soul in the most loveable unconventional way - Yes Paul Gaboury, I’m raising a cup of coffee you won’t ever drink, to your glory - and even the quirky interface.

I couldn’t have said it better, @Julian_K !

The ‘Maxologic’ take-over has been on my mind ever since my jaw dropped when reading that news.

As a 3D industry veteran I can clearly remember how I reviewed the first ZBrush version for a Dutch computer magazine many years ago. Back then I didn’t really know what to think of the 2.5D approach, but it was immediately clear to me that the coding level was top-notch.

In the years that followed I remained faithful to 3ds Max, but always kept an eye on the intriguing developments of ZBrush, gradually developing the 3D sculpting medium.

Once ZBrush 4R7 was released, I had become very eager to jump on the ZeeBee bandwagon for an exciting creative ride.

Every time a major ZBrush upgrade was released for free again, I wondered how the company could stay alive like that.

I’m also an avid Blender user since 2012, when 3ds Max went the subscription way, and next to the Blender Foundation, Pixologic was the only other developer / publisher that kept my full sympathy, not only because of their lack of profit greed, but mainly because of their grandiose tool and the sympathetic atmosphere, both at the side of the developers and the side of the users / artists.

Looking at the facts up to now, the take-over by Maxon does not elicit trust in the future of ZBrush. Maxon quickly switched to a subscription-only model after taking over Redshift, and the subscription prices of C4D, Redshift and other Maxon products are way too high for a small-scale freelancer like I am.

I’m now hoping for one of these possibilities:

1. Perpetual ZBrush licensees will remain respected and will keep being able to upgrade once a year for a reasonable price (comparable to what you need to pay to upgrade Keyshot for ZBrush), in stead of having to switch to a subscription-only pricing model.

2. If ZBrush becomes subscription-only, I dearly hope the subscription price will be reasonable to hobbyists and small-scale freelancers. My personal maximum monthly budget for a ZBrush subscription would be $ 20, but preferably less of course.

3. A third option I’d definitely find interesting to consider is an Indie license for a combined C4D and ZBrush package, with a yearly price not much higher than that of Maya Indie: currently $ 280. But I consider that to be very unlikely, although it could be a strategic blow to Blender, Max and Maya.

However, if Maxon turns out to take full advantage of the take-over for maximum profit gain, then for the time being I will probably keep using the last ZBrush version covered by my perpetual license, but sooner or later I’ll completely switch to Blender, Nomad Sculpt and/or 3D-Coat, although it would break my heart to leave ZBrush, its sympathetic developers and the creative community behind.

The bottom line: I really hope Maxon and Pixologic will soon release reassuring info to the loyal ZBrush user base.

[Gremlin]

I Really doubt the sub cost would be $20 dude… its not even $20 before they merged with Maxon… unless they’re able to negotiate it being lower since they’ve got more money behind them, but the $40 sub price that will likely stay, if not go even higher if Maxon tries to Shove some other program in there with it. (that none of us want) Worst case, don’t just move on JUST to Blender, keep the current Version of Zbrush and use that, they literally cannot take it away from you. its yours. and will most likely work for for 10+ Years or more without any Fan Patches or Bug fixes from Windows “Fixing” things in its Operating System.

[MetinSeven]

I’m afraid so too.

There’s another thing that might prove to become a hurdle for me:

When I bought ZBrush 4R7 I was still working with macOS. When I returned to a Windows PC, the license was transferred by Pixologic, but with the message that the switch would only be possible once.

I’m now seriously considering a return to macOS, and wonder if that rule still stands, forcing me to buy ZBrush again, or having to go for a $40 subscription.

Does anyone happen to know if that would be the case?