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Questions and Answers for the Insert Multi-Mesh Repository

ZBrush Usage Questions
#88

|ZBer that is SO CLOSE!!!
|
I watched the whole thing, its great!
But its not quite doing it, he is using a one sided object and Im not and I think that is where I am running into problems…
Im trying to make a connecting weave that results in continuous geometry (like his does after exporting and importing) but mine has depth and the edges are not welding, also I have more than one polygroup because each thread or strand needs to be able to be edited later, what I am ending up with is each instance of the mesh I am using for the micromesh is coming out as a separate meshes (thousands of them) and that kills it.
They don’t weld, they don’t dynamesh and they don’t ZRemesh… so far.
The other thing I am wondering is whether I need total precision on the ends of the strands, this is something I have no clue how to accomplish in ZBrush, and I don’t want to make micromesh things in something else for a number of reasons, mainly I hate leaving ZBrush.

This is the file, once you see it on an object as micromesh you will see how its failing, the best way to see it is to use the smooth brush, but you can see it in other ways too such as by subdividing it.

MicroMeshCloth.zip (14.3 KB)

[ EDIT: I may be seeing some welding, but not to and from the correct points and suddenly I think I know why, that whole thing about Spin Edges, I bet that the little welding I am seeing is not happening correctly because my objects are not lined up in the same directions! If that is the case Im screwed because while in his tutorial he does this with a small grid of polygons for making an Alpha I am using full objects that have a million or so polygons. I bet that is what it happening!
Oh crap! ]|

MicroMeshCloth.zip (14.3 KB)

#89

I confirmed that last bit about needing to use Spin Edges.

It looks like I might be screwed.

#90

I think where you are having the problem is that you have closed geo where it should be open. If you are going to use it for ‘micromesh converted to geo’ then everything around the outside will have to be open or it might not weld properly. This is true for most 3D apps. Also, you have slightly overlapping geo and I think it is confusing ZBrush as what to weld and what not to weld.

edit: add image

new-3.JPG

#91

This is what I get, using your ztool, when I use ‘micromesh converted to geo’ then welded using ZWelder and then subdivided twice. Is this the same as what you get?

new-2.JPG

#92

|EDIT:
|
I tried ZWelder again and this time it worked mostly!
I think the difference was that I had not opened anything from a folder different then where ever ZWelder stores things… or something… honestly I have no clue…
I did do some welding and seems to have worked FAIRLY well, but with some exceptions where some points seem to be welded to the wrong place, this happened before but more so, I think what I need is that bloody Spin Edge thing automated somehow, I don’t quite see spinning the edges of many millions of polygons by hand… if that is even the problem!

PROGRESS!!! YAY!!!

Half of this post was deleted for no evident reason.
ZBC is a weird bit of html…

So here’s the other blasted part:

Do you mean the ends of the strands need to be open? or all of the stuff on the edges including the sides of the strands?
Your result looks great but I would love to see it after you use the smooth brush on it, using the smooth brush makes it look “threadbare” but it also shows where points weld funny…
If you have opened the sides of the strands they will merge into one wide one which is somewhat undesirable, I think that could be fixable by moving them in from the edge however. The problem there is that this is designed to be sort of dense cloth that can be thinned out later.
Hmmmmm…|

#93

This is what I get when I smooth the hell out of it using the Smooth brush.

new-4.JPG

What I did…

  1. Load your ztool.

  2. Select a Plane3D and make it a PM3D.

  3. Reconstruct Subdiv twice but only for demonstartion purposes to keep it light.

  4. Went to ‘Tool > Geometry > Modify Topology’, clicked ‘MicroMesh’ and selected your ztool.

  5. Turned on ‘Draw MicroMesh’ in ‘Render > Render Properties’.

  6. Did a BPR render.

  7. Clicked ‘Convert BPR To Geo’ in ‘Tool > Geometry’.

  8. Used Zwelder to weld geo (no errors).

but, as you see where I used the Smoothe brush, it didn’t get welded everywhere. I don’t think that is ZWelders fault though.

#94

Something else you might try is, making the ztool 2D, as Joseph Drust does. Weld that with Zwelder then Extract for thickness for 3D.

#95

|You got the same problem I did, you see where it breaks right?
|
That happened to me too, but Im getting closer, I now have points from one strand jumping to another strand, but so few its like Im ALMOST there, but not quite, its weird…
The 2D thing is sort of out unless you mean making the same sort of object with a bunch of one sided objects, this IS possible I think, and while it would be I think harder to grab the ends of the strands to make the weave I think you might have the only answer.

This has subdivisions and smoothing but is the best example of using weld that I have managed so far:
|

CloseUp.jpg

Attachments

CloseUp.jpg

#96

Im going to try to make a one sided one using a Plane3D reduced down using the initialize pallet, this should be interesting!

#97

As it turned out that came out worse!

#98

I tried your ztool again with all the same steps I had in post #93, but this time I lowered the Threshold slider in ZWelder to .002 before clicking ‘Weld Current Object’ and it looks like it did a decent job of welding. Same as before, I subdivided twice then used the Smooth brush.

new-5.JPG

#99

ZBer, I have one that works, if you turn Weld up all the way in the import panel, but it comes out dented and strangely uneven.
The most interesting thing is what you get for polygroups in the end!

Give this one a try, I got it to work nearly flawlessly, but with some slight denting.

LastDitch.zip (11.2 KB)LastDitch.zip (11.2 KB)

#100

I didn’t have much luck with your second one. No matter what I did, I kept getting the same thing.

new-6.JPG

#101

well crap!
I used a cylinder, what did you use?

Heres mine:

Result-ish.jpg

Attachments

Result-ish.jpg

#102

That last one I had the threshhold all the way up by the way.
Same old crappy results with it any lower…

#103

I found ANOTHER problem, this one is in my object (LastDitch) and I THINK its what caused the problem, its the polygroups, Im going to try to fix it, wish me luck, I need it!

#104

Ok.
Here is the deal I think:
I think it WAS the polygroups.
The edges that butt up against each other need to be OPEN.
The same edges need to be the SAME PolyGroup.

If they are not ZBrush seems to go bat**** and do the thing where it randomizes spin in unacceptable ways.
If they are open and the polygroups are correct things seem to work with one exception; extreme angles. I did a cube and the only place it broke was the corners.
I still have some dents which I think are welding related but Im not sure yet…
Heres the new mesh:

SeriouslyLastChance.zip (10.7 KB)SeriouslyLastChance.zip (10.7 KB)

#105

|Ok…
|
That only sort of worked, its still the Spin Edges problem (I think) and that leaves us screwed…

If for example you want to do an alpha the Spin Edge thing is sort of ok, but if you want to make a dress or something its NOT ok at all.
In order to even think of using Spin Edges you need to start off outrageously low rez, not something that can be done with complex cloth I don’t think.
The other thing here is burlap is ok, silk is sort of out of the question and that makes me want silk even more than I like it outside of ZBrush.
Ignoring the fact that large amounts of silk are not going to happen we need an AutoSpinAllEdges Button!
There is another interesting problem that I sort of crept up on, what happens when the topology suddenly changes like with Dynamesh or ZRemeshed objects is you get these sudden areas of total chaos where even if you were to spend a year spinning edges you would have a hell of a time getting it to look… welllll… possible.
What’s great about this is that if you don’t care that it isn’t possible it looks GREAT.|

ZRemeshedCloth.jpg

Attachments

ZRemeshedCloth.jpg

#106

By Jove, I think you’ve got it. Smashing good show. The “SeriouslyLastChance” ztool worked perfectly after I ‘Spin Edge’ and ‘Align Edge’ then used ZWelder. Subdivided twice.

new-7.JPG

#107

NICE!!!
ZBer that perfect!!!
I can’t seem to use Spin Edges as I get no preview that is visually useful, just a faint green dot here and there.
I think though to have this be a useful thing (making cloth) one needs to start off with an object with properly spun edges.
If I can get the preview thing to work I will make a whole set but so far I can’t do that… yet. GRIN!

I think Im going to start a MicroMesh repository since THE POWERS THAT BE didn’t answer the question about using the InsertMesh one…
I just need to make up a fancy looking title graphic like Aurick came up with!

Got any MicroMesh examples you would like in it (the graphic I mean)?