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Presenting ZBrush 4R7 (Updated with Summit Recaps)

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#863

Happy New Year Everyone! Hope ya all had a great holiday!

Food for Thought - and apologies if this has already been mentioned in this thread (It’s getting large!) - I have been playing with low poly in current version over the holidays and was just thinking how cool QCube/QSphere/QCyl - Zmodeler will interact with UVMaster.

Given that you can already create UV islands with the polygroups button turned on within UVMaster, how quick it’s going to be to create accurate UV’s. IE select faces>polygroup>Unwrap by polygroups. IMO definitely negates having to take it into another package to do.

I was also thinking on being able to define your UV Seams, but looking at the Qmesh Target Options this appears it might be a breeze to incorporate into the UVing process.

Maybe something for ZB5 - Being able to define your UV Seams. Then again, if face selection,Target Options and Polygrouping is so quick is it necessary??

Anyway - Like I said just some Food for Thought. Oh and Pix. Tis my Birthday in a couple of weeks!! :wink: Hmmm I wonder what my missus could buy me?? Keyshot+Bridge defo on/in the card! And there’s her thinking a trip to a London Show!!! LOL.

Oh MAH - By the way many thanks for the advice on keeping the Cintiq 22HD!!! :+1: Wow!! and Recommend to anyone if you have the desk space. If you don’t, do what I did, build your workspace around it!!!

#864

I don’t think my comment was negative at all. It points to the one thing that seems to be missing in a major update…focus on the main product and it’s intent. As you pointed out, Pixologic is skipping steps to becoming a better renderer by having an outside proven product do the work for it. Of all the renderers I could choose, KeyShot wouldn’t be the one, but that’s not to say others don’t want or like it…but it is to say that we may as well start picking various apps each of us likes that do texturing, retopology and other things better than ZBrush and skip any other efforts. Obviously, that’s not what we or Pixologic wants. Staying on focus for the development of ZBrush as a 2.5d app and/or sculpting app in a better way seems a better use of time and development. My comment about giving it improved built-in functionalities was supposed to help stay focused. Becoming more dependent on outside products to do what you’re trying to do with the one you already own doesn’t seem the right direction, but to each his own.

Want KeyShot with enhanced workflow? Great! I hope this works well for those who use it. Otherwise, it’s a hugely long wait for a feature that I’ll never use, as others may feel the same way. 64-bit capability is definitely welcome, as it opens up a range of possibilities and speed and doesn’t require an outside product (short of your OS). If features like that aren’t working well, out of the gate, then it brings home the point I’m making about staying focused on task. If you look at the feature demos, much of it is pinned on the ZBrush/KeyShot blend…which implies most of the rest of this was really just background noise.

#865

Wow. That wasn’t my takeaway at all. Obviously the Keyshot bridge/bundle was always present, because that’s the nature of the tool–to insert itself into the workflow as a feedback aid. However in the official teaser that I watched, far and away most of the time–and the “oohs and ahs”–was devoted to showing of the new polygonal modeling tools (something in demand since the program’s beginning), new subdivision mode, and instanced geometry tools. All of those things, by the way, significantly increasing Zbrush’s power as a creation engine, which you seem most concerend about. If the update were about nothing other than the jump to 64 bit, it would be huge. We all know what 32 bit zbrush can do with 4 measly gigs of system ram–finally unshackling its potential in this regard is critical. I guess we all see what we want to.

You appear to blame the KSbundle for a delay. Do you have any particular evidence that suggests it actually is the KSbridge functionality that is responsible for the delay, and not simply the challenge of developing two different versions (32 and 64 bit), across multiple platforms, as they have said? And if all these features are as inconsequential as you suggest, why would you care how long the free update takes to come out at all? Why not just happily continue using the version you have, and let the rest of us silly people be excited for the “background noise” that won’t be of much use to you?

#866

Spyndel

its his opinion

#867

Maybe I’m a little naïve, but once someone pointed out that the KS bridge will give us direct access from ZB to a PBR render program, my ears perked up. Isn’t PBR the latest and the greatest, in the 3D industry? I’m glad to have the opportunity to export directly from ZB to a PBR render program.

Once I asked tech support why ZB would not support a 3D mouse…the answer was, it would have to have a mobile camera and that’d change the way ZB “worked.” Obviously, Pixo has had to overhaul ZB to a goodly extent (4r7 will support a 3D mouse, if the post I read was correct). So maybe that’s what they (Pixologic) concentrated on…overhauling the ZB framework…and decided to leave the building of a PBR render engine for later.

In the meantime, they gave us the Keyshot bridge deal to fill the gap.

Yes, we have to buy the bridge, but after years of free upgrades, I can live with that.

Probably that’s a simplistic view of things, but it works for me. :wink:

#868

Thanks buddy.

#869

Maybe I’m a little naïve, but once someone pointed out that the KS bridge will give us direct access from ZB to a PBR render program, my ears perked up. Isn’t PBR the latest and the greatest, in the 3D industry? I’m glad to have the opportunity to export directly from ZB to a PBR render program.

Once I asked tech support why ZB would not support a 3D mouse…the answer was, it would have to have a mobile camera and that’d change the way ZB “worked.” Obviously, Pixo has had to overhaul ZB to a goodly extent (4r7 will support a 3D mouse, if the post I read was correct). So maybe that’s what they concentrated on…overhauling the tools themselves…and decided to leave the building of a PBR render engine for later.

In the meantime, they gave us the Keyshot bridge to fill the gap.

Probably that’s a simplistic view of things, but it works for me. :wink:

you said give us like it was free

#870

Do you have anything to offer other than this absurd notion that opinions can’t be challenged if you disagree with them? At least psiclone offers support for his points. Your contributions seem limited to making ridiculous assertions, and then throwing a tantrum when someone calls you out on them, rather than offering any sort of compelling counter argument.

I don’t require people to share my opinions. I frankly have nothing to say to the statement, “The new Zbrush update contains nothing that appeals to me, and I’m disappointed it didnt instead contain other features I would have preferred.” It’s honest, direct, and utterly beyond my concern.

I only take issue when people with a clearly negative mindset make sketchy assertions to try and support their points. I’m going to challenge these statements when I see them, just like I challenged you when you implied the keyshot bundle was a cash grab.

I know you have your nose bent out of shape, but if you insist on following me around now to be a pain, at least contribute something of substance.

everyone don’t view things negative the way you do

#871

Thebest12 – I edited. :slight_smile:

I really need to start previewing my posts, so I don’t have to edit half a dozen times.

#872

Wow. That wasn’t my takeaway at all. Obviously the Keyshot bridge/bundle was always present, because that’s the nature of the tool–to insert itself into the workflow as a feedback aid. However in the official teaser that I watched, far and away most of the time–and the “oohs and ahs”–was devoted to showing of the new polygonal modeling tools (something in demand since the program’s beginning), new subdivision mode, and instanced geometry tools. All of those things, by the way, significantly increasing Zbrush’s power as a creation engine, which you seem most concerend about. If the update were about nothing other than the jump to 64 bit, it would be huge. We all know what 32 bit zbrush can do with 4 measly gigs of system ram–finally unshackling its potential in this regard is critical. I guess we all see what we want to.

You appear to blame the KSbundle for a delay. Do you have any particular evidence that suggests it actually is the KSbridge functionality that is responsible for the delay, and not simply the challenge of developing two different versions (32 and 64 bit), across multiple platforms, as they have said? And if all these features are as inconsequential as you suggest, why would you care how long the free update takes to come out at all? Why not just happily continue using the version you have, and let the rest of us silly people be excited for the “background noise” that won’t be of much use to you?

That was somewhat taken out of context. I never said there was a delay. I also stated that if having the new KeyShot workflow is what you want, then great and that I hope it works out for you. No need to get defensive. Simply put, what I’m most concerned about is that Pixologic takes this wonderful software we all bought into and focuses its capabilities. Some would see the KeyShot workflow as just that, and some of us don’t. No biggie.

Calling the upgrades free is really just in comparison to average business practices of charging for upgrades. Sure, in that sense, it is free. However, part of the “sell” for ZBrush is that you don’t pay for upgrades if you buy the software. It’s a contract that both parties are willing to partake in.

By the way, if PBR is a big focus for folks here, I know that 3D Coat is building it’s own built-in PBR functionality as we speak. It’s not for me, personally, but it may be helpful for others, here. I find that ZBrush and 3D Coat really compliment each other well in many aspects and this may be one of them…and guess what…it’s cheaper than KeyShot…yet, perhaps, not the best of breed when it comes to that capability.

#873

Once I asked tech support why ZB would not support a 3D mouse…the answer was, it would have to have a mobile camera and that’d change the way ZB “worked.” Obviously, Pixo has had to overhaul ZB to a goodly extent (4r7 will support a 3D mouse, if the post I read was correct). So maybe that’s what they (Pixologic) concentrated on…overhauling the ZB framework…and decided to leave the building of a PBR render engine for later.

In the meantime, they gave us the Keyshot bridge deal to fill the gap.

Wait… I’m confused… are you saying that the KSbundle is a stopgap? A stopgap for what? Will Pixo be introducing some other render system somewhere down the line? If so, why should I shell out 250$ For the KSbundle instead of holding out for later when they introduce the big new render thing?

Or did I completely misread you?

#874

That is absolutely NOT correct. Zbrush is under no obligation to give away upgrades for free, is not part of ANY agreement implied or otherwise, and Aurick has confirmed they will charge for upgrades at some point. They commit to no upgrade pricing beyond whatever’s been announced for the current upgrade. The sell for zbrush is that it’s a unique creation engine, still unmatched in terms of raw polygon potential and sculpting performance on even modest hardware. Buying it under any other assumption, or suggesting that others do, is highly ill-advised.

That in no way diminishes how remarkable it is that they’ve given away a decade of free upgrades and development to existing users, especially in an age of graphics software publishers trying to milk every dime from customers with ever diminishing upgrade paths, and pay by the minute subscription “rentals”.

If I took you out of context elsewhere, I apologize. That was not my intention, I genuinely misunderstood the point you were trying to make. You mentioned “a lot of delay for a feature you wouldnt use” (paraphrase). I still think you’re undervaluing the significance of this upgrade, but that is your prerogative.

#875

That is absolutely NOT correct. Zbrush is under no obligation to give away upgrades for free, is not part of ANY agreement implied or otherwise, and Aurick has confirmed they will charge for upgrades at some point. They commit to no upgrade pricing beyond whatever’s been announced for the current upgrade. The sell for zbrush is that it’s a unique creation engine, still unmatched in terms of raw polygon potential and sculpting performance on even modest hardware. Buying it under any other assumption, or suggesting that others do, is highly ill-advised.

That in no way diminishes how remarkable it is that they’ve given away a decade of free upgrades and development to existing users, especially in an age of graphics software publishers trying to milk every dime from customers with ever diminishing upgrade paths, and pay by the minute subscription “rentals”.

If I took you out of context elsewhere, I apologize. That was not my intention, I genuinely misunderstood the point you were trying to make. You mentioned “a lot of delay for a feature you wouldnt use” (paraphrase). I still think you’re undervaluing the significance of this upgrade, but that is your prerogative.

You’re correct in stating there doesn’t appear to be an explicit statement of free upgrades, save for the undeniably strong implication of such from pages like this:

https://support.pixologic.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/77/8/zbrush-4r6--how-to-upgrade

It’s a strong selling point and isn’t the first time I’ve seen this mentioned by Pixologic. I’m happy they do it. However, this statement:

“The sell for zbrush is that it’s a unique creation engine, still unmatched in terms of raw polygon potential and sculpting performance on even modest hardware.”

…isn’t fact at all…it’s opinion stated as fact…an error we’ve both made. I’ll pit 3D Coat against Zbrush in almost every way…I prefer the “feel” of some of both programs’ features, but that’s about where it sits for me. I can load a 50+ million voxel mesh in 3D Coat, do accurate booleans all day long and not skip a beat, but I can’t do that as easily with ZBrush. I never have to worry about dynameshing or remeshing or zremeshing or any of that in 3D Coat. I prefer the brush “feel” in ZB and the movie making options, but that’s really all it gives me above 3D Coat. There’s no doubt a 64-bit ZB will help.

#876

That’s an announcement for a free upgrade to a previous version of Zbrush, which is as far as Pixologic ever commits to–the current upgrade. I see no strong implication of any future upgrade there other than the update to Zbrush 4r6. They are under no obligation to provide free updates because you imagined they would.

There’s also this, which will hopefully nip this argument in the bud before it becomes a thing again:

I trust that is explicit enough for you.

This topic isnt for discussing other off topic applications, and I don’t want to derail it. Suffice to say I think you are mistaken. But I certainly dont begrudge you whatever tool you’re most comfortable using.

Having corrected your statement about free upgrades, we really don’t have anything further to discuss. I think you’re undervaluing the announced features, but time will tell how useful the new free upgrade with all the announced features, the jump to 64 bit, and the Keyshot option will be.

#877

Anyway, these threads remind me of why I have to leave the boards for a few months every time a new version is due out. People just get crazy and unpleasant with all the uninformed whinging and negativity. I know I have a low tolerance for it, it’s entirely my own weakness, and I’m sorry if I made things contentious for people or frustrated the mods at all. It was entirely my fault for even setting foot in these threads.

I’ll see everyone in a few months when people calm down and become sensible again. I look forward to seeing what the community does with the new program update when it comes out, and all those lovely Keyshot renders.

#878

Don’t apologize, Spyndel. Some of us like to read your comments here.
Everyone has a different opinion about the direction in which ZBrush’s development should go but I trust Pixologic’s vision and their commitment with innovation.

#879

Wait… I’m confused… are you saying that the KSbundle is a stopgap?

No, no. Just trying to make sense of the ZB/Keyshot combination. Just speculating, trying to figure out how all the pieces fit together.

A stopgap for what? Will Pixo be introducing some other render system somewhere down the line?

I really don’t know any more than anyone else. As I said, I was just pondering. :smiley:

If so, why should I shell out 250$ For the KSbundle instead of holding out for later when they introduce the big new render thing?

I don’t know that there will be a big render thing down the line. As for me, I’m all enthusiastic about PBR, so any program that lets me utilize those materials is going to be interesting. Or any combination of programs.

And if you’re going to tell me I shouldn’t speculate in public, I already know. You can tell me anyway though, if you want to. :wink:

I’m sorry if my post caused you confusion. Again – I know no more than anyone else.

I know I’m surely ready to try 4R7 and all it’s frills and friends though!

#880

I’m sorry if my post caused you confusion. Again – I know no more than anyone else.

Nothing to apologize for. I was just asking for clarification (in my spastic, frantic, flaily way because I am ultimately a spaz, especially when it comes to Zbrush. XD).

I am VERY much looking forward to the KSbundle. If it works as it seems to work, it will revolutionize my workflow. I am absolutely thrilled and I cannot wait.

#881

LOL…I can be frantic and spastic, too. :smiley:

I got a little frantic when I thought I’d mislead you.

No more pondering in public for me. :wink:

I am VERY much looking forward to the KSbundle. If it works as it seems to work, it will revolutionize my workflow. I am absolutely thrilled and I cannot wait.

Me, too! PBR changed the way I texture, that’s for sure. Loving the Keyshot demo, so really looking forward to the bridge.

#882

I dont think you will be dissapointed Jan, Keyshot is just amazingly simple to use and gives first class results.