Well maybe, just maybe, the Beta testing isn’t that advanced at all…
Just a thought…
Are you implying theres no beta at all and they are just pulling our leg? 
I 'm afraid this is the case
[QUOTE=loki74]Okay. Perhaps, but by the mere fact that Pix is accepting money for their product created a valid expectation of a release date–SOON. This is a valid expectation regardless of whether or not Pix were to say anything about a release date!
The point is, they didn’t post a valid release date. They simply made an option for Intel Mac users and PC/Mac users that prefer to work on their Mac. As an Intel Mac user, I appreciate at least having an option while they work on it. I find that it is an extra step out of their way to help some of us out until they get it working. They made no promises on when it would be released. This was only created as an option to help, not a hook line and sinker. You shouldn’t be upset with them. They sold you exactly what they offered, an option to use Zbrush 3 until they release the Mac version, and they never said when.
Actually, if I remember correctly, a month or so after they release ZB3, they offered the Mac/Intel license. I think they knew then it was something they were going to struggle with. So basically, they did not sell us an option as you suggest. We paid for a version to run on the Mac OS. The part I agree with you about, is they did not say when. All they would do is offer vague info at best by an insider on the forum suggesting ZB2 took 6 to 8 months or so, so be on the look out come Dec/Jan.
This thread is a riot! It’s like the Montel Williams show.
Baz: LOL! Don’t make promises you’re not willing
to keep! If z4 comes out I want PHOTOGRAPHIC
PROOF of you mud wrestling an oinker (it must
have a tail and everything) :lol:
loki: I disagree on programming not being a creative
process - coding an app, especially a graphic one, may
be one of the most creatively taxing things you could
attempt. Creativity means simply that your idea is
unique or original - and ‘art’ can be any task that’s
practiced to a degree of mastery.
And regarding the whole ‘it’s not late if you don’t
set a date’, that’s a one-legged table. Yes, as a
consumer it’s your obligation to perform
due diligence, i.e. what’s the running history of
the company you’re purchasing from? If they
have a history of being late or missing dates
you wont find much sympathy - generally those
things work themselves out naturally (i.e. they
lose their customers / free market).
in the end…
It’s business - what effect is this delay going
to have on their bottom line? Now what effect
is it going to have on your bottom line? You
need to look at it the same way. Being a smart
consumer is your job. Even spending time on
this thread is an expenditure. ouch
Debating whether there is an issue at this point
seems unproductive at best. A line has been drawn
and you must decide how you’re going to interpret it,
what effect it has on you and act accordingly.
Loyalty from a company in this day and age is
nothing more than a facet of branding. It’s all
numbers. Don’t invest yourself emotionally,
but focus on making good ‘business decisions’.
Those will be different for everyone, and that’s
totally ok - we need to be understanding, and
at the same time confident enough to make
decisions for ourselves without being beholden
to mass social approval.
ok, enough reason, let the groveling continue!
I’m not denying that creativity is involved–I’m just saying that to propose that its somehow a “creative process” that should not have its purity compromised by restraints and time limits, etc, is completely and utterly ridiculous.
I’m not about to debate the definition of “art,” because there’s really no way for anyone to “win” that one. But regardless of whether or not programming is art, one thing is for certain–in this case, it IS business.
Admittedly, I should have read up around here a bit more before making my purchase.
I know that Pix “made no promises” and had no official deadlines. However, as vague as their language was, it seemed to constantly be attempting to make us feel optimistic… ie, the infamous word “soon.” There are only a handful of things for which an entire year can be called “soon.”
Like I said, if they were upfront and said, “We may not have this ready for a long time,” I would have no problems. This statement is equally nebulous as “We will have this ready soon.” The former just happens to be more accurate. I’m not asking for greater specificity from Pix, I’m asking for some good old fashioned honesty.
As far as smart business decisions goes… at the time, ZB was the best offer, and in a manner of speaking, ZB is best in its class–AFAIK, no other sculpting app can do what ZB does as good as how ZB does it. Concerning my bottom line, I won’t be too hurt by this, but I feel that it this is a non-issue…companies should deliver the same regardless of the finances of their customers.
Looking at the time investment in participating in this thread… well, the next best option (most “utils”) would likely be either sleeping or doing some work in Z3… seeing as I don’t have Z3 and lately I’ve been getting lots of sleep anyway, the opportunity cost of participating is minimal.
And believe me, I’m not worried about social approval when buying my software or any equipment… (why do you think I’m using a Mac? xD ) Even invoking the name “Modo” around some parts is a bad idea…but if I had the money, you bet I would own it!
Ah well… I’ve had enough utils from this thread for now…I think I can feel the marginal utility beginning to diminish! x]
Yes, Baz—I’m going to have to second Glitcher’s request for photographic proof of a pig wrestling match. 
Seriously tho, I wonder if they would release ZB4 so quickly after 3. All of this speculation has me wondering. Nah, couldn’t be…right?
lol I think pixos track record is unpredictable
anything is possible. a privately held company
with no upgrade fees is pretty much at liberty
to implode if they so desired :lol:
it’s definitely interesting to watch at any rate!
So you paid for something that wasn’t out yet and there was no release date. No matter how optimistic you were about the release date when you paid for the license, it was a risk. Who else could you be mad at but you? I did it too, so I understand.
People are treating pixologic as if they didn’t hold up their end of the deal, though. They didn’t promise anyone anything. Even if they were hopeful and gave estimated time frames that were missed, they never mislead anyone with a false release date. I gotta have their back on this one even if I’m stuck in the same boat as you. Being that we still bought the license anyway, it’s OUR fault if we are upset about the delayed release. At least they offered the temporary Window’s license. They never did anything wrong, though, so why be mad at them???
sigh
I’ll again reiterate:
I know that Pix “made no promises” and had no official deadlines. However, as vague as their language was, it seemed to constantly be attempting to make us feel optimistic… ie, the infamous word “soon.” There are only a handful of things for which an entire year can be called “soon.”
Like I said, if they were upfront and said, “We may not have this ready for a long time,” I would have no problems. This statement is equally nebulous as “We will have this ready soon.” The former just happens to be more accurate. I’m not asking for greater specificity from Pix, I’m asking for some good old fashioned honesty.
It’s been a year.
Over the course of that year we’ve been consistently (and conveniently “unofficially”) led to believe that it’s just around the corner. But, we turned corner after corner and saw nothing.
No matter how you cut it, a year is not “soon.”
If you’re going to say that I’m the only one to blame for my mistake of purchasing software that wasn’t finished yet, that’s also to say that it is solely my mistake to have trusted a company to deliver something I’ve paid for …“soon.” Okay. I can accept that, there’s definitely some merit in it.
But as a corollary I would propose that failure to accurately estimate the timetable (miss it by over a year, in fact) is solely Pix’s fault, and is a blunder that cannot and should not be so quickly dismissed.
It is late, very late. There was never a date, though, you can’t ignore that fact. We could have not spent the money, but it was our personal choice to pay and wait as long as we are forced to. Now here we are waiting and mad when we paid expecting to wait! We just didn’t know it would be this long, that’s why people are freaking out.
Yeah baby!
Glitcher, I agree with both of your last posts. It is entertaining to watch people get irate like the Jerry Springer show. I have actually changed my mind about this thread… it’s too entertaining to see it closed =)
I don’t think Pixo will ever implode though. They have way too much talent and creativity to do that. In the very end, if they wanted to dissolve, they could always open source it, which would ensure its existance for -infinity.
Loki, is God creative? Not that I believe in God but I think you’re making some irrational statements. Maybe that was actually an irrational question. Anyways, this is getting too philosophical and now the conspiracy theories are rolling in.
There are laws against consumer deception and you’re entitled to your rights but I think you would have a difficult time arguing that in court. You’re better off asking for a sympathy refund from Pixo.
…
ok, i admit, a couple recent posts actually made me laugh out loud. superglitcher – i like what you have to say. if i was still a hardcore mac user, i would be yappin with all u maccyz about not being able to use zb3, too bad i got a pc like a good boy and ive been zbrushin for a year. "Don’t invest yourself emotionally,
but focus on making good ‘business decisions’.
Those will be different for everyone, and that’s
totally ok - we need to be understanding, and
at the same time confident enough to make
decisions for ourselves without being beholden
to mass social approval.
ok, enough reason, let the groveling continue!"
i have invested emotionally into zbrush but only cuz i love using it so much!! if i didnt have it, and i was getting my pantys in a bunch over the mac delay, that wud be quite sad indeed
I dont have a copy of the page or a screenshot, but I remember the way pixologic phrased it, and it was something like:
“The mac release date will be announced shortly after the release of the PC version”. - I understood that as an implication on the mac version was soon ready and I bought the software.
I dont know about you, but after a year I wouldn’t call that shortly after anymore — and they even still haven’t announced that release date! I have been using parallels a while, but it killed all sorts of creativity to have to wait for it to start, and it would have taken even longer time to use bootcamp to reboot all the time - So personally I got almost no value for my money — yet!
Other mac users might feel they got value for money, and good for them 
I do chose to trust that the mac release is fairly close as pixologic claim, and I look forward too if of course, but until then I can only use zbrush 2 for minor doodles or wait patiently for parallels what to start, with no support for my wacom, and not being optimal in memory handling.
Sometimes I wish that Pixologic would have offered us to test the beta, on our own risk of course — at-least so we could get the feel for it. And many testers report more bugs than few testers.
But I am also a little ambiguous about it, since pixologic would definitely risk get bickering and whining they would have to deal with. That they should act at like they to us now — silence, but at-least we would have been seeing some progress and knowing that something is happening.
Who’s dismissing it?
I’m just tired from groveling…
If there’s not enough pointed
reparté here for ya just go
read over the last thread -
the banned one–yea some
sharpies in there for ya
that’s for sure!
this thread is where people
go who realize they can do nothing
more than grovel when they’re
annoyed by all the cool stuff
going on over in the real forum.
“yeah, real cool work, amazing -
wow. awesome” yea grrrrr
crying
Carsten, I remember that “release date” wording, too. It’s one of the things that induced me to spend money on a program that didn’t exist. They made it sound like it was just around the corner.
Considering the wording and nature of that announcement, and now the incredible amount of time that has passed, I strongly feel that something has gone terribly wrong. Something so horrible that…
Has anyone else had suspicions along those lines? I feel like I’m sitting in a theater, watching a disaster movie and waiting for the “surprise” ending.
Ah. Fair enough…
See, I’ve been really busy with school and other stuff for a while, so I haven’t really had time to think (grovel) about my ZB purchase. So, I guess I’m somewhat behind on my groveling; I’ve just now begun (as of a few posts ago)!
Haha, I actually seem to recall defending Pix fairly adamantly in that thread, and I’m pretty sure I’d still stand behind anything I said there… but gah, I’m too lazy to check.
I’m not calling for legal action or a war on Pix–all I’m saying is that this is messed up for sure, and I’m not just handing Pix a pass (more precisely, their track record in my own mind & my personal feelings towards them as a software company have been tarnished).
Heh… I feel ya. But even if its another six months away, our time will come!
=====
To answer your question, Kosher: First, yes, I do believe in God. Yes, I do believe he is creative. But He’s gotta be a pretty big technical genius as well. Are the Pix devs creative? Sure. Technically skilled? No doubt about it!
But is software development more technical or creative? My layman’s opinion is that its more technical. Is speaking the universe into existence more technical or creative? My layman’s opinion would be so far removed from the real deal that I don’t even really have one… if that makes any sense at all…
And for the record, I know that in the above paragraph I’m talking about my beliefs like they’re fact, I do not intend to infringe on any contrary beliefs in this forum, and I make no guarantee express or implied that there will be no negative effect on your mental health as a result of reading my posts. x]
lol amazing posts!!!
leave it to this thread to go religious
look what you’re doing to us pixo!
you’ve got normal designers talking
about programming and God!!
((… regarding the act of creation being more creative
or technical - I would have to imagine that if you believed
in God, that you would also believe that He created
everything (being the most creative act possible)
including the laws of the universe and biology
(being the most technical act possible).
So it would be both more technical and more creative).
Though I also imagine if you did believe in God
it would be somewhat unnatural to draw comparisons
between the act of creation and releasing an upgrade
to zB.))
loki - love the disclaimer, classic! Please send all complaints
to God(at)God.God
Yes, I paid for something that worked great at the time, and yes, they did “promise” me a free upgrade. So with your logic, they have done nothing wrong, as long as with in my lifetime I receive a “free” upgrade. Keep in mind companies offer “free” upgrades to the upcoming release to gain new customers. It is a marketing tactic to create more market share. So, I imagine a company could burn their customers once, but they would never get to pull that marketing tactic again.