Kosher, show us some links to your nice threads with your fine art, I only can find someting about your troubles.
SIGHHHHHHH … I have been on vacation for the past 11 days and I thought for sure I would come home to a nice surprise. This is getting really old.
-jim
SG - I don’t know that what I posted should make you any more depressed than you might already have been 
I was trying to lend some historical context to the “free update” issue and the notion that Mac users are such “whiners”. ZBrush 2 for Windows released in April 2004, and when everybody was offered the “Free upgrade to 2.5”, everybody believed that it would be released sometime in 2005. Well, 2005 and 2006 came and went with no release.
So, yes, there is a history of missed release dates, though to their credit, once the “reasonable estimate” for 2.5 was missed, Pixologic basically wouldn’t say anything until Feb 2007, when they announced the May 15 release for ZB3 for Windows. I’m not asking for a hard date at this point, but Pixologic has said nothing official for the Mac release, not even a vague “2nd Quarter 2008”. I just don’t think they can continue to run a business this way, as competitors become more open and communicative about development timelines.
At root, this is a management problem, as you said. To a degree, I admire the fact that Pixolator’s “artist’s temperament” has prevented him from doing what more “businesslike” people might have: release a buggy or not-quite-what-he-wanted product and call it v2.5. Still, there is an on-going issue with not being able to manage the project effectively, and I hope they are able to conquer that issue going forward.
In the end, I’m starting to think that an annual or bi-annual “subscription” is the only sane way to handle software like ZBrush, Modo, etc. Pixologic seems to have gotten too wrapped up in “we need to get all of these features into v3”, when software development is more a series of iterations these days, and the real issue is deciding when to say,“This is a shippable update, so let’s freeze the code for a few weeks and release it”.
Once again, Luxology seems to have gotten the system down best. They ship a major new version every 18 months or so, and 2-3 bug fix/new feature updates in between. They maintain communication with the user base via the podcasts and forums, and everybody stays pretty happy. Bugs still slip through, things don’t always work exactly as you’d like, but you don’t feel like the company is invisible and unresponsive.
Pixologic would have to make some major changes, as they have a history of releasing “monolithic” updates. To their credit, they don’t seem to have as many bugs as some other developers (though 3.0/3.1 seem to have more than ZB2), but in the current climate, something has to be done to keep the user base energized between the major releases. How they choose to handle this going forward will be interesting to watch.
Well, he got one thing right, in his case.
rbaumhauer, this not true, not all pc users are jerks, no more than all islamists are terrorists. but i don’t blame you, kosher seems to troll every thread he posts in. anyway we are all human regardless of the computers we use, but as humans some are jerks and some are not.
whenever you guys get it i’m sure it will not be the version us PC users have but something a little more advanced, then it will be the waiting game for us.
try to remember that mac had perspective and a few other things that we never got until z3. i’m just saying at some time we are all waiting on way or the other, at least its not in a queue at the DMV, now that is hell. However i do feel sorry that you all have had to wait so extra long, i’m hoping for you that the extra time is Pix making that extra something for you, so it will be worth it.
edit: rbaumhauer i misread your statement, you were specific to him, sorry, its late and i’m off to bed 
But then you can throw everything you’ve got at ZB and it’ll just smile at you and keep on coming.
"There are, O monks, these six roots of disputes. What six?
Here, a monk is angry and revengeful; or contemptuous and domineering; or envious and avaricious; or deceitful and fraudulent; or he has evil wishes and wrong views; or he adheres to his own views, holding onto them tenaciously and relinquishing them with difficulty. Such a monk dwells disrespectful and without deference towards the Teacher. Such a monk creates a dispute, which would be for the harm, unhappiness and loss of the multitude, for the harm and suffering of humans."
Hey Guys,
I wasn't going to post my good news about Zmapper because I got wind there were disgruntled comments about discussing Windows, emulators or BootCamp on the ZBrush Mac thread. I don't agree with this opinion considering Pixologic has suggested this as a method of corralling Mac users into the ZB 3.0 fold. Besides, how else will Mac Users get into the new ZBrush other than install Windows on the Mac? BootCamp, Fusion and Parralels are very much Mac related topics.
Yeah right...anyway...
With a little research you will find a few of my own disgruntle responses on the subject, and how unhappy I am with this makeshift alternative, especially with Zmapper which never existed on the Mac in any version of ZB. Well I'm happy to report, after 2 years of wanting zMapper on Mac, I finally got it to work last nite with ZB 3.1. Hallelujah!! I almost CRIED TEARS OF JOY. I just want to inform you guys of my setup just in case some of you are interested enough to try it.
Few months ago I got a 24" iMac with 10.5.2. Yesterday I installed BootCamp with Windows XP SP2 and the bootcamp extensions once XP was installed. This way I could get on the net wireless in case any installers needed updating. Getting on the net was a previous headache but all I had to do was slip the Leopard disk back in after I installed XP.
Next I did a typical install of ZBrush 3, then updated it with 3.1. Lastly I installed my Wacom drivers for my Intuos GD. Another redlight, eventhough I use Logitech Trackballs, I didn't install the drivers because I have had other problems with using "Masking and the Control key". The cursor palette would flip up instead of mask. I isolated this problem by not installing the Track ball drivers or Wacom first and checking the Masking. I was happy this was working and it still worked properly after the wacom was installed.
Now for the finale, I clicked on the Zmapper button and the "Average man sample" was spinning and twirling without giving me a message or freezing on every frame. I did a happy dance but only for a few moments, I have a crick in my back...and I didn't want to set it off...plus I have downstairs neighbors :)
Ok...after two years of no zMapper with ZB2 ...bet they come out with ZB3 on the Mac now that I finally got it. haha.
BTW, I know just as well as anyone, money for computers is not easy to come by and many people have tons invested in their current workstation, but if you can somehow manage it, an iMac is a great little Mac to have around the house anyways. The 24 inch, 2.4ghz is down to 1,799.00. It's very portable for moving it from room to room and it comes with a remote, nice for movies, wireless couch potating. :)I’m now holding off all hope of this coming out anytime before Macworld in June!
I hate being accused as a troll. Let’s steer this into a more productive thread instead.
You know, I was wondering about pixo management. They seem to have it going fine with all the promotion and cooperation with holywood. And they’re not that bad with patches. 3.1 was not only another breakthrough, but was also sort of a bug fix for 3.0, and it didn’t take too long for them to release it either.
Perhaps the problem isn’t really bad programming. One contributing factor I suppose is the changes to the OSX. It scrambled Adobe into rewriting a heapload of codes because of changes to the OSX.
http://www.tuaw.com/2008/04/03/photoshop-cs4-64-bit-in-windows-only-32-bit-in-os-x/
the next version of Photoshop (CS4) will be available in both 32- and 64-bit versions for Windows, but only a 32-bit version for OS X. The reason: Photoshop on OS X is written with the Carbon API. Last June Apple decided to kill 64-bit Carbon, forcing all future 64-bit application development on the Mac to Cocoa. Adobe had originally planned to ship a 64-bit CS4 as a Carbon app and port to Cocoa for CS5, but now the 64-bit version will have to wait for the CS5 Cocoa build.
Even a company the size of adobe couldn’t navigate that kind of change that quickly. And something far more complicated like ZB would be harder to “port” instead of simply Cross-Compiling the windows version.
If Pixolator’s temperament dictates that ZB should be feature complete before shipping, then I’d have to agree with him. I don’t like the sound of a incomplete ZB floatin’ around.
I don’t think anyone questions the complexity of getting zBrush for the mac together. And I’m sure everybody is extreamly greatful that they are going to do it in the first place!
Also no-body Is (or should be at least) blaming programmers…
I think the main problem is lack of response from Pixo, I mean we’re nearing 600 posts!
By now someone should have gone, ok we did want to keep this secret and polish it before release, but now we’re going to have to leak something. Pics of it working, any info on features if there’s something new and holy grail, an estimated time!
Houdini have just gone into their first beta tests for mac and in the summer will open it to a public beta. Rhino3D has an open beta tester program with development blogs etc…
Pixo… Well, we’ll make you pay for a bit of software that you can run on an OS that you don’t really want to use, but can. Then we’ll release a mac version for you free of charge soon… THEN NO WORD FOR NEARLY A YEAR!
And it’s not FREE, a lot of people have paid for it with the expectation they’d get their Mac version soon and they haven’t.
It’s time for some word from the makers on the subject, but I’m not holding my breath!
I’d just say watch out, cause if mudbox ever goes to osx, this program might have a fight on its hands!!!
Good Point…programming on a Mac has been described as a moving target.
With Apple surpise announcement of the recent Xcode conversion, lots of developers had to completely shifts gears with code that was near completions in code warrior.
Maybe they merely had to wait until the dust settled at apple development.
Oh, one more thing, I had problem with screen resolution on emulator…I was shuttering when I tried ZB in Bootcamp…
I am SHOCKED that there is no elongate or stretched wide screen resolution.
It looks dandy also.
Can’t say that i’m too worried when ZB3 for osx arrives. It’s obviously better if it’s together and bug-free, and bearing in mind pixologic have their reputations to think of, when they are happy with it, then we all will be happy with it.
I don’t use zbrush in a professional capacity, and zbrush 2 osx is fine for me at present, though i am looking forward to the new one, with great anticipation.
I can appreciate the frustrations of professional, and semi-professional users, who have invested heavily in new macs, and have to use a non native operating system. not ideal.
Myself, if I was using zbrush commercially, and it was vital i had to make money with, and I was actually making money with it, then it might make commercial sense to buy a PC even for a temporary period, just to be commercially competitive, until the native mac version came out. It would be more important to me to get a result out, and money in. Just my humble opinion.
For hobbyists like me, waiting isn’t that bad, though I can imagine for those in the middle, who have invested a lot in hardware and software to gain high level creative results, with limited expectation of financial return, it is especially hard. It’s for them really that a little more communication, however meagre, would help to assuage their frustration.
I don’t really understand the mac/pc evangelical thing, in my opinion, they are just operating systems that both work. I work on macs, i guess, because i always have, and do subjectively prefer the mac ‘experience’, but have no problem with having to do stuff in a windows environment, as in practice, it’s only the filing system differences you have to get used to. For instance, once you’re in photoshop, you’re in photoshop, whatever the platform. Surely, it’s the creative result that counts.
Don’t get me started on linux though !! ( only joking )
I am also waiting for the Mac release, and I have taken into consideration the problems that Pixologic developers have had to contend with when porting the update to the Mac system. I can only guess this but they would have needed to wait for the official release of the new Leopard OS which wasn’t available for most of the time between the Windows release of ZB3.
It is a pity that as Zbrushers some have used this thread as a means of debating the merits or (lack of) the two operating systems.
How is it that we can jointly enjoy the work that people produce using our beloved ZBrush and then switch threads and argue like this?
I believe that the release is due and it is probably just being finalised with last minute adjustments being made alongside the beta testers feedback.
Lets all be friends and try to understand each others frustrations with the wait rather that criticize them
You really have to give Pixologic a ton of credit for creating a really strong community of supporters and people that care deeply about the future of the product.
You also have to hand it to pixologic for pointing a spotlight on individual artists and the outstanding talent in this community. Pixologic has also gone the extra mile in trying to nurture community and user based support for the product. They’ve spent time building a product and distributing updates for no additional cost because they feel that the art and feedback from the community is fuel enough. It’s the starving programmer meets starving artist.
The innovation that ZBrush has brought to the PC and Mac community sets the bar high but I can imagine that they’re working to set it even higher for future releases.
I don’t have any work of my own to show yet because I don’t believe in showing off my work until I feel it has reached a level that’s worthy of so many eyes.
I agree.
Nevertheless, it would seem to me if you are in business as a 3D graphics pro, you would want both bases covered or some “supplementary” system available, just in case. I mean you never know when you may get a Rhino file or AutoCAD. Of course importers go a long way, but sometimes…there’s that situation where having either or system would help immensely.
:rolleyes:
I don’t think it is correct to suggest the changes to OSX is entirely to blame for the coding/porting issues for software companies. The big issue for developers is that the Carbon API that they’ve been using in their applications have been End-of-Lifed. To over simplify things, the API is what the application use to communicate with the OS and make use of the services the OS provides. The Carbon API was created as a bridge to help transition from the Classic Mac OS APIs to the OSX API - Cocoa. Carbon helped the developers quickly port their existing legacy OS9 code base to OSX. I am sure you remember the many products that were “Carbonized” when OSX first came out. Carbon was always intended to be a stop-gap measure to give developers time to fully transition their code over to the Cocoa API and it provides a subset of features that is in Cocoa. Apple have always pushed the developers to use Cocoa to take full advantage of OSX. At some point, Carbon is going to go away. It is not going to be ideal to support two branches of code forever. Especially given the fact that the Classic Mac OS is no longer supported. Most new applications like Pixelmator use only the Cocoa API. It does not mean, however, that one’s Carbon dependent application will stop working in OSX, but rather, the application would not be able to take advantage of the newer features of OSX going forward, e.g. 64-bit support. However, any PowerPC dependent code will have to be rewritten going forward. And you guessed it, a lot of Carbon deals with PowerPC code.
Using Adobe as an example, they ported their “creative” applications like Photoshop over to OSX using Carbon in a relatively short time (I believe 10 man-weeks was what they said in their press release back when OSX was introduced). But they have not transitioned those applications over to Cocoa after that. Pretty sad when you consider how many paid updates those applications have had since the introduction of OSX. I would like to suggest that at some point, someone at Adobe decided it didn’t make any financial sense to clean-up/update/examine the millions of lines of code that make up those applications. Especially when doing so would not positively impact the bottom line. It is a decision that was good for the company in the short term, but bad for users (CS won’t be 64-bit until CS5 for the Mac). It is interesting to note that new Adobe applications like LightRoom is 100% Cocoa. So Adobe programmers can work with Cocoa if they wanted to.
Code Warrior was a popular coding environment back in the Classic Mac OS days. It was supposed to be able to let you cross compile your application between Mac OS and Windows. When Mac OSX came out and included the free Apple created/endorsed/supported/blessed XCode development environment, its market share took a dive and never recovered. I do remember that CW had a nice application shell you can plug your code into so you don’t need to worry about recreating the UI code. I don’t know if that integrates well into XCode. I would think that the developers who had transitioned over to XCode would have stopped using Code Warrior.
… plus c’est pareil.
ok, ok ,ok… all that personal bla, bla, bla…
AURICK, PLEASE, WRITE SOMETHING WE CAN TALK ABOUT!!!
dam*n :evil:
I am tired of reading how others can run ZB3 on a f#@-Mac, tired of people who do not like or do not have the money to buy a Mac.
I work on a Mac more as 23 years and I try to earn my money with it. I tried to work with a windows-computer but I could not get used of the stupid noises, stupid animations (like a dog looking for a file), so I present it to a child.
Yes, I know, a windows computer can do a good job, but I don’t like it.
The only thing we Mac-users can do, is asking back our money, TOGETHER!
Love ZB for ever, but not at the moment.
Hmmm, still no comment. When I am F@@ by a company I get crazy!