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Human Male Bones WIP

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#1

Hey Everyone,

I am working on sculpting up Male Human Bones right now as just a personal project, and I was wondering if everyone could direct me on which detailing is most realistic when dealing with human bones. I don’t have a real skeleton in front of me and I am relying off of books, mainly “Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist” and “Primal Pictures CD Set of the Human Body”. I was wanting to nail down the right detailing so that I did not over due it or under do the detailing on all of the bones. This is the Scapula for the shoulder.

Most Smoothed Out Detail:
[attach=28354]ScapulaMostSmoothed_01.jpg[/attach]

Medium Smoothed Out Detail:
[attach=28355]ScapulaMidSmoothed_01.jpg[/attach]

Least Smoothed Out Detail:
[attach=28356]ScapulaLeastSmoothed_01.jpg[/attach]

Houdini, XSI, ZBrush :slight_smile: :wink: This is just sculpting no texturing thus far.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

Attachments

ScapulaMostSmoothed_01.jpg

ScapulaMidSmoothed_01.jpg

ScapulaLeastSmoothed_01.jpg

#2

Hey Guys N Gals,

Again I still have not done any texturing on the model its sculpting at this point and time. I actually hand modeled in every major pore in the bone structure. I didn’t feel the brush could really give me what I wanted there so I just did it by hand. I did end up using the pinch tool to get tighter define edges that run along a good number of scapulas. As I cam to find out no 2 Scapulas are a like. So some of them have these ridges and some of them don’t. Most it seems do but their placement varies.

The Scapula model as it stands is a little more than 3 million polys.  I plan on UV Unwraping the model here in the future and taking some pictures of the cow bones to use as textures for projection master.  Thanks again guys Comments and Crits are welcomed.  I am thinking of etching in more detail along the edges where the bone definition does this slight cascading effect etched inwards.  Not sure though I might just do that with Projection Master and some good textures.  Tell me what you think and what it needs work on.  The texture on the bone is not perfect but that is as good as I can do before displace texturing to add more definition to the model.  Looking forward to ZBrush 2.5 so I can push my models further.  My other computer can barely handle the 3 million polys.  Ugh.  

Front of Scapula:
[![ScapulaFrontSmoothedSM_01.jpg|613x710](upload://bPVkylDxHqZ81Z5PCdbbbEse32y.jpeg)]![ScapulaSideSmoothed_01.jpg|429x765](upload://2XRtbRRdc5jqFnd2vZ9Z0duWnJl.jpeg)

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

Attachments

ScapulaBackSmoothedSM_01.jpg

#3

Amazingly accurate model, Nate!
Are you intending to do the whole skeleton (just curious, as the scapula is an odd choice!)?
Dread to think of the final poly count if that’s the case :wink:

Chris

#4

Hey Chris,

No worse than that. The whole skeleton, all the muscles, and all the veins. Then make a skin and fat system. I am guessing the full character will be around a billion polys.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

#5

Hey really good work, MatrixNAN.

I can tell you have put a lot of effort into these bones. The pores look great, but I wonder if the ruffness is a bit overdone. Overall, bones are smoother, I believe. It’s great to see this sort of work being done here. Keep up the good work :wink:

How did you start-off the model? Zspheres? Box in another program?

ernia

#6

Hey Ernia,

I started off with a box in XSI and Houdini. :) ;) When 2.5 comes out I will be more into the ZSpheres but right now its kind of hard to get the edge loops I like inside of ZBrush so I prefer to do it in XSI. Actually I have some bones in front of me and they are even rougher on the surfaces in areas then what I did. I might need to reduce the pores a bit I am not sure. I still have to texture the bone and do displacements from actual pictures of bone surfaces. I mean right now I am literally just modeling everything in. There is no texture map applied and I have yet to UV Unwrap the model. Ugh. I think the roughness might have a bit to do with age to because bones do rot and I think the bones that are in my pocession have a bit of rot to them. I plan on checking out the bones at UGA in their medical department to see better close up their texture. But I did work from photo references along with Primal Pictures CD set, Many Drawing Anatomy books and more. So it ought to be fairly accurate. The fine pores are not totally accurate because bones tend to have these cascading wave like pores of texture on them and I think I would have to do texturing displacement to get that correct in a descent time frame. The wave effect of the pore definition is strongest at the edges of the bone which is interesting.

Right now my bone looks more like sand paper on the surface but this is do mainly to the fact that the surface is way to even on the fine detail and that wave effect is not there and also the depth of the fine pores varies across the bone surface. So yeah the fine pores need a lot of work.

So don't worry I am going to make it better when I go to texture the bone, and I will be looking forward to your comments on the surface of the bone at that point and time. I am working on the Humerus now. :) ;) Thanks for the comments.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

#7

Hey Guys N Gals,

Here is the Humerus. I was hoping to have it finished but I have sculpted it up 5 times due to some freak problem with ZBrush crashing tonight. ZBrush does not normally crash and its not due to the poly count. Its crashing around the 1,000 to 64,000 poly range but I can pump ZBrush up to 7.7 million and it does not even begin to complain so very odd. ZBrushed crashed on me about 20 times tonight and I can't remember the last time it crashed before that I mean its been a long time since it has crashed so it was a bit frustrating. I had a gig of ram free too. Very odd. Anyhow I only have the base shape defined of the lower part of the Humerus that attaches to the Radius and the Ulna. The grove in the Cartilage needs to be done again. I am still trying to nail down my workflow in ZBrush. I will work on the rotator cuff of the Humerus tomarrow. Sorry I didn't have the whole Humerus done tonight.

Front of Humerus Bottom Where the Radius and Ulna Connect:
[HumerusFront_01.jpg]HumerusBack_01.jpg

Poly Count is 7.7 Million on the Humerus.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

#8

7.7 million… looking good but can’t help but think you could have the same results with alot lower subdivision.

El-d

#9

on reybustos.com

#10

Hi MatrixNAN,

You’re right. It is a minor detail and you are not finished yet. Everything is looking so good, btw. Box modeling is the same approach I used in some bones I have been modeling (sacrum, hipbone, femur). I was very suprised to find out how much variation there really is between bones. Absolutely facinating stuff.

Yes, I will be very interested in your progress.
I’ve been holding my breath about the new zb2.5, but my face is starting to turn blue by now. I may pass out soon :wink:

Crossbones: What a fantastic site! That guy is VERY talented. Ha, Rey’s Anatomy. That’s funny :slight_smile:

ernia

#11

Hey Guys,

el-d: Technically your correct I don’t need 7.7 million polys at this point and time in the modeling workflow. I have only worked up to 5 divisions which is probably about half a million polys. However if you look at the Scapula I did its 3 million polys and I needed every bit of them in order to get the detail on the surface of the bone including as to when I do projection master eventually. So I will sculpt up to 7.7 million polys here today on the Humerus. Generally I just go ahead and divide it ahead of time and then just work my way up and down. The higher poly counts give you much more accurate Displacement map generation because you have a lot more detail to work with to put into the maps. I will be saving out the Displacement Maps and Normal Maps at 4,096x4,096 resolution. I will import them both into Houdini and XSI.

crossbones: That is a good reference, and I have used it a lot also in the past. Also some more good references would be:
Freedom of Teach
Primal Pictures

I also have a good list of books on the subject matter if anyone is interested. I am always looking for more good references. The link was much appreciated crossbones. :slight_smile: :wink:

ernia: I know what you mean. I am shocked at the rather large varations between just male scapulas around the same age. Its also interesting to see the varations in shape between female bones and male bones. The bones I am doing now are male bones. There tends to be more references for the male bones. Later on once I finish the man I am going to do the varations for the woman also. Even the texture varies some from bone to bone. Its amazing.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

#12

Hey Guys N Gals,

Ok I finished the Humerus and ZBrush seems to only want to crash on that bone alone. Very very strange. I am very glad I finished it because I am tired of it crashing. I have started the Clavical which does not crash, and I think I am going to lighten up the surface of the Scapula for the fine detail pores like what I did with the Humerus and also I found a Layer brush that I didn't know how it worked and I think I might try modeling in that Layered effect on the Scapula bone.

Would be cool if that works because then I might not have to even bother with displacements if I can do everything through modeling and then I could just use the Texturing for color. Not sure yet how I am going to go about it.

Humerus Pictures:
[HumerusFront_02.jpg]ScapulaFrontLowPoly_01.jpg

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

Attachments

HumerusBack_02.jpg

HumerusBottomBack_02.jpg

HumerusBottomFront_02.jpg

HumerusTopBack_02.jpg

HumerusTopFront_02.jpg

ScapulaBackLowPoly_01.jpg

#13

I love it. Good stuff, Nate.
Thanks for the low-poly of the scapulas. Did you just go poly by poly or move the points of a box around?
Btw, the surface looks much better on the humerus :+1:
ernia

#14

Hey Ernia,

Thanks for the comments. Yeah I am thinking its much better on the Humerus than on the Scapula thats why I am going back and redetailing the scapula’s surface. I have gone back and redetailed the Humerus a bit more. I am wanting to add some more detail to the shaft and I did already add more pit details at the two ends of the bone. It looks better now. I think the reason why ZBrush was crashing on the Humerus was my fault because I don’t think I had the Mem setting correct under the Preferences. Is there a way to save those setting so that they do not go back to the defaults everytime you open ZBrush?

I started to play with the Layer Brush but I still have not gotten the hang of it. So it might be awhile before I get that one down. I am getting better everyday I do this with working with ZBrush and how to shape my surface the way I want it to. I think this bone modeling exercise is a pretty good one for learning how to detail a surface. I have been doing the more broad stoke basic form detailing in the past in ZBrush but this is the first time I have gotten into detailing and it seems it is an art in and of itself. I am going to try to do as much as possible with the sculpting so that I get it down before I rely on projection master. That way I force myself to do it right on the sculpting.

Thanks for your comments before to rip it apart anytime you see something wrong with it and I will do my best to look at it and then again and again until I figure out how to do the right artistic process. Its really helping me to get a lot better rather quickly. :slight_smile: :wink: Let me know if you want any other wires. I am going to post the Clavical tonight and if I am lucky maybe another bone. :slight_smile: :wink:

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

#15

Hey Guys N Gals,

 Ok I need your help again.  Your comments have made me sooooo much better artisticly with ZBrush just over the last several days its just been crazy.  I need help on knowing what to push on the Scapula to make it look more real.  I have done an update on the surface and it looks better now than what I posted ealier but it still does not look real enough to me.  I know the cascading surface topology would really help, but I can't seem to figure out how to use the layer tool effectively.  So any suggestions would be wonderful.  Sorry guys I am still learning ZBrush and how to really detail a surface and how to really push my models and the how to effective use the ZBrush tools to  increase my workflow.  

Well unforinately ZBrush 2.0 seems to keep crashing on that Humerus only.  Its not doing it on the Clavical or the Scapula.  All of my bone models are completely Quads.  So its just really strange.  I really did a lot better tonight with the Humerus the shaft of that bone looks 10 times better than last night.  This is the best bone I have done yet without a doubt and now I am trying to figure out how to make the Scapula look as good.  I also further detailed the 2 ends of the Humerus.  I also am about mid way through modeling the Clavical.  We will have to see if I get around to finishing it tonight.  Might not happen.  Instead of doing more bones I just decided to do the bones I have already done better and more accurate.  I really am just trying to get down a good workflow.

Humerus Touch Ups Update:
[HumerusShaft_A_03.jpg]ScapulaBackSmoothed_02.jpg

Please Rip me apart on that Scapula because I need to get it right. :slight_smile: :wink: Ernia I agree I can’t wait until ZBrush 2.5 but if they are fixing bugs then I am willing to wait as long as it takes so that they get a good clean release.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

Attachments

HumerusShaft_B_03.jpg

ScapulaFrontSmoothed_02.jpg

#16

can you say to much detail ? :+1: :+1: :+1: :+1:

#17

Hi MatrixNAN,

The scapulas look great. I think one you get a texture with all the necessary channels on them they will look wonderful. Regular old bump map can add alot to something like this.
Humerus is awesome. great surfacing. I’m not an expert here, but these bones are looking great. Perhaps you could try a texture on one of them, just to get a feel for how the surfacing is reacting with the texturing.

Keep up the good work,
ernia

#18

Hey Ernia,

I can’t texture for awhile probably about 2 months. The reason why I can’t is because I have to get a D70 Nikon Digital Camera and the Super Macro Lens in order to take up close pictures of the bones in order to get that detail in. I will then work them over in photshop and make alpha brushes out of them for ZBrush and have a look at ZApp Link. I have a professional 35 mm camera but there is no way I am going to go into the lab and make 8x10 prints on ILFORD paper with the enlargers for each texture and then dry them out and all that junk then scan them into the computer. Ugh. Besides the chemicals give me headaches. :slight_smile: :wink:

I am headed off to UGA in about 40 minutes and I am going to have a look at their bones and talk to some people then I will come back and finish up the Clavcle and post it. Tonight I will post some mores probably from the spine.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

#19

Holy cow! Those are expensive textures, MatrixNAN :eek:
Can’t wait to see these things when you are done. Everything is first rate.

ernia

#20

MatrixNAN - Great project. Hope you will share the knowledge you gain in modeling fine details. You should end up with the finest skeleton model available to date. Very worthwhile project :+1:

I too use only Nikon equipment. I shoot both digital and film and my wife is a pro so we have a closet full of equipment. We are saving for a pair of D2X’s right now. We are currently accepting donations, however they are not tax deductible.

There is a much more economical solution for your textures. Unless of course you just want the camera :roll_eyes: Scanning negatives still gives higher resolution and sharper details than a high end digital. One more generation and that wont be true any longer. Film is about to become a fossil. We don’t do much scanning and did not need a high dollar scanner so we found a Epson 4180 Photo scanner for about $350.00 that has an optical resolution of 4800 dpi and scans both prints or negatives. The results from a 35 mm negative are slightly higher resolution than the D2x and about twice the D70. I would still rather have the camera, but it has paid for itself many times over.

God help those of us that are hooked on both CG and Photography as we will never have a dime to our names :laughing: