Human Male Bones WIP

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Thanks for all of the comments. Sorry I don't have the Clavicle done I had to model its shape several times because basically the term "Medically Accurate" is well not so accurate. I have 16 Anatomy Drawing Books and the Primal Pictures CD set. The Primal Pictures CD set is pretty good on the accuracy sometimes its missing a few details or they are under played but otherwise its pretty good. The books kind of skimp on this bone it seems its not a very popular bone if you can imagine a bone being popular or not. lol Yeah I am the D70 for most Texture purposes. I have done photography but my main reason is for up close pictures of surfaces. I plan on using it for tree bark also and other things like skin textures. I am going with Nikkor lens only. :) ;) The D200 is really cool and incredibly expensive and really out of my budget range. I think I will wait for the next generation because its not like the D200 can do 4096x4096 resolution textures anyhow. Its only 10.2 megapixels which is really nice but still not up there. I think animation is the bigger money sucker. lol Nothing like having your own basic 4 node renderfarm. lol Which is nothing by Industry company standards. Ugh. lol Man I am not doing the negative scanning yeah I know I can do it and I even have the equipment for it but I want to go straight digital it will save me a lot of money in the long run. Because I am going to make a LOT of textures. lol I would hate to think of all of the developing I would have to do and the cost of the film and before you know it I would probably pay for that camera in about a month. lol I didn't manage to get to see the bones today at UGA it seems everyone is going on Spring break so the place cleared out pretty quick. I got a lot of exercise running around that hilly campus though. lol Ok enough talk from me here are pictures of the basic shape of the Clavicle.

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Oh as for the showing my technique for detailing the forms that I don't have a problem doing but there is no way I could right that up into a tutorial I would have to make videos because its something you would have to see and not read. My method is different than what I have seen in any videos for how I go about detailing so I am rather enjoying that aspect actually. Thats when I have the most fun doing this because then I feel like I am finally pinpointing the model and the rest of defining the form was just foreplay leading up to the end result. I know have the capture equipment and software at this time so that would be something I would have to do if I were to make the videos. There would have to be a number of people that wanted them in order for me to break even on it. Right though I am still refining my modeling process and making a lot of adjustments which really speed up the process but now I am really starting to get my workflow down and more or less refining my method. I guess I have an item to add to my wish list for a feature for ZBrush. I would love to have a button that I could hit on the keyboard and change the direction of my tool and have it to where I define the radius at which the tool sculpts. For instance right now the tools are setup for 360 degrees but what if for instance I only want to sculpt downwards and not everywhere well then I would change the radius of my tool down to 180 degrees and rotate my tool downward and now my sculpting only goes in the downward direction. Man that would be really useful when I am sculpting. What do you guys think?

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

[ernia]

Hi MatrixNAN,

You could try recording your zbrush session into a zscript. It just records all the movements you make with your mouse and all the buttons you push. And then it will play them back. No video required

ernia

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Ernia,

What I will do is with the Zscript in order to show my workflow is to do it on the patella so that I don't spend a lot of time working on a big detailed bone that you would have to sit through and watch. The patella is pretty small so it would make for a nice fast demonstation of my workflow. I will do that once my workflow is a bit better. When I feel like I have it down then I will just crank that bone out for you guys and you can just download the ZScript from me. I will try to setup a website on CG Channel or something. I also found out that I am right on for dead bones. Basically bones outside of the human body and these have all this detail in the surface that I am showing, and I am spot on for those. Living bones are very smooth because they have this layer wrapper around them I can't remember the name of it off of the top of my head right now and anyhow it gives them a very smooth shinny appearance. I am just going to smooth out the details for the living bones and have 2 sets of bones both dead and living. Which I think will be great because then I can do zombies and other undead creatures and also I can do a living set for most other characters. :) ;)

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

[ernia]

Sounds good, MatrixNAN. I’ll be interested to see you work using zscript.

Another set of bones for the living?! Man, you’ll have to buy an external 160GB drive just to store all these polys

Btw, did you happen to catch my bone post? It’s here if you didn’t.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=33461

ernia

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Ernia,

Nice bones they look really good. I thought you did a great job defining hte Sacrum and the Os Coxae and the Femur. I didn’t think the muscle looked as real as the bones. Although its a lot harder to get good reference images of actual muscle tissue. lol I was thinking of going with an SSS shader for my bones in XSI and Houdini along with an SSS on the muscles and tendons also. I think it will make them look a lot better. More real anyhow. Some bones are a bit translucent if they are thin enough in parts.

As for the hard drives yeah I plan on buying about 3 300 to 500 gig Sata 2 industrial grade hard drives. Learned the hard way about consumer grade hard drives. The industrial grade ones are not that much more in cost and they last at least 10 times longer if not more. I have burned up more hard drives than I can count. I run them pretty hard. Just one of my projects is about 60 gig so I need a lot of space. This one I don’t even want to think how big it will be in the end but I am guessing it will be huge. I aslo going to be modeling the cartilage too because that is really important and has a large influence on the body. There are several cartilage joints in the neck which I think are important and I am going to model them. I am almost done with the Clavical I have just gotten bogged down with other things in the last several days to where I have not had much time to play with it. I have to go back to work tomarrow. So yeah that will slow me down again.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

[MatrixNAN]

Hey All,

Well I know this is a bit of a detour but I need to do this model to show the students good form and how to go about modeling a character in high detail. Of course our computers at work are not good enough to do high detail modeling and I am doing this at home as a personal project to show to the students. This is why I need to be ripped apart on the model. I have not gotten to the hands, feet and arms in these pictures. Also I have touched up the back a bit since these pictures were screen captured. I am going to touch up the back a bit more yet. I am not totally happy with the legs. I feel pretty good about his stomach and chest although I think I need to make the sternum more visible before the muscles attach to it. Crits Crits Crits Please. Hopefully by this coming weekend the actual model will be done and I can start sculpting up the female model. I can't start on the bones again until I get all of this school stuff out of the way.

Model is 3.67 Million Polys and still not enough. lol
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Looks like the muscle going from the Mandible wrapping under the Zygote bone is shaped right and going quite in the right direction. Needs to be going a bit diagonally forward to me. Also is it just me or does the the cheek bones need to come out more on the face coming out forward to match up with the nasal lavial fold?

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

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[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

I touched up that cheek bone I also Touched up the muscle running from the mandible to just under the zygote bone. I also touched up the muscle that runs along the neck. I know the name of the muscle I just remember how to spell it. lol I also did some rough work on the arms they are far from done. Also I decided to go back and emphise the muscles on the legs some more. I think I am going to play up the muscles on the back of the legs some more. I am also going to bring out the muscles on the lower half of the legs. I have not had time to bring those out more yet. The back has been shaped better adding mass mainly to the lower back where it was lacking most. I also played up the should blades where the scapula is and the trapizius muscle on the back. I probably spelled that wrong sorry guys I will get the spelling of these names of the all the muslces down better in time. I know the bones pretty good. I still have not even touched the hands and feet yet so yeah I will eventually get to them this weekend. If I am lucky I will get all of the masses properly defined over this weekend so I can go to work on the veins later on. Comments and Crits Welcomed. Special thanks to Chris Volion for his input on my mistakes in the definition of the form. I love being told when I am wrong so I can get better and fix it. :) ;) Learning a lot from you Chris thanks so much man.

Here are the Updated Images So far I have spent about 4 days solid on this character man:
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Cheers,
Nate Nesler

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[ernia]

Man, you are a machine, MatrixNAN!

Looking good to me so far. The side view of the head looks a bit odd. I don’t know if the ear is too small or the head is too deep. Torso looks good.

Keep it coming!

ernia

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Ernia,

Thanks man your totally right I saw it earlier and kept meaning to get around to it and then I eventually just totally forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me because I completely over looked the ear again. Yeah the ear is too small. It should come up to the edge of his eyebrow and come down as low as the edge of his upper lip and well it doesn't. It needs a small adjustment upward and a good bit of an adjustment on the lower part.

Thanks that was the major thing the head needed for an adjustment. Thank you thank you. I need to probably tweak the nose at some point and time for doing more of a detail pass on it on the underside of the nostrals. I have not gotten around to it yet. I am only part machine, cyborg if you will. lol Sucks when going through metal detectors at the airport. I always get the wand.

I am going to do another 2 day blitz this weekend on it hopefully I will have the hands and feet done too. Female model to come after this one.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Well I am still refining the form. The arms are getting a massive overhall and they are defantly still in Work In Progress. I think my biggest problem with the arms is the radial bracialis. I am sure I butchered the spelling of that but that muscle running along the forearm is giving me a lot of trouble. I moved the elbow back came to the conclusion that the elbow is not in the center of the arm because the forearm is actually longer than the bicep. Ugh that was defantly throwing off the placement of the forearm muscles. I think I made the radial bracialis too large and I need to shorten its width. The underside of the arm is pretty good along with one side of it. The top and the side facing the front of the character needs a lot of work still. I did a massive overhaul of the legs and now they are looking a lot better. I also reworked the neck and it still needs some more touch ups. I still have not made it to the hands and feet. I think this is just going to take me awhile to get it right. I fixed the shoulders on the back some more also. Whatever help you guys can give me on nailing down those arms better would be of a great help. They are very frustrating to nail down. Comments but mainly Crits are very welcome. Please rip me apart. :) ;)

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Cheers,
Nate Nesler

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[Defago]

have you checked out this model zach petroc put up for download a while back? It should really help you see how to deal with the arm connections.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=20709

while not exactly proportionally perfect- it really helps out on some of the muscle areas.
Also- if you havent seen his dvd i think its the single most helpful zbrush dvd out there. the man is phenomenal with anatomy.

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Defago,

Yeah I have it loaded up on a second computer and I look at it from time to time for reference. I used the model as a reference more in the beginning than I do now because so many of the forms are generalized that I can't see really how this connects in with that. It is an amazing sculpture in 3D but the I am relying on more medical references at this point and they are helping me a lot more. Yeah I have seen his video, and I plan on buying it in a few months plus I plan on taking 3 figure sculpture, and 1 figure drawing classes from UGA which will really help I think. I am going to post on his thread a special thank you once I finish the model. Unforniately one of my best references Primal Pictures CD the Arm CD cracked into because they don't use the best plastic for their CDs I guess. So I am without a 3D medical Arm reference other than some pictures on a site. I think I will buy those on a DVD soon which will really help. When Zack is talking about the different medical bones and muscles he is not kidding when he says that it helps to have an understanding of where those muscles connect into and how the create that shape and form. Thats why I am relying more on medical references at this point because it is making the largest impact on my work. Later on I will take a shot at trying to understand how fat lays ontop of the muscles, bones and veins but for right now I am just worried about the mucles, bones and veins. The problem is that Zacks Model the forearm is rotated facing out forward. Mine is rotated down to the ground. So that changes the rotation of the muscles on the forearm. I now think he is very wise for rotating those hands out like that because that keeps from having to wind and rotate those muscles as much around the forearm. So its a bit of a nightmare for me. His forearm muscle only needs to rotate 90 degrees where as mine has to rotate 180 degrees. Thats the primary reason I am struggling so much. It makes a big difference. I agree Zack is an amazing artist. ;) :) Hopefully after my Masters I will be closer to his skill level. :) ;)

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

[Defago]

I hear you on that rotation ordeal.
It helps with the lack of twisting, but most importantly- Im sure you’ve seen enough medical shots- I’ve yet to see one with the palms rotated downward.

Im too busy at the moment to sketch overtop of some models- but hopefully tommorrow evening I’ll have time.
What really helped me was focusing on the elbow first and finding the muscles origins. Once that confusing mass of muscle and tendons is taken care of, its much easier to follow the muscles around to their insertions toward the wrist.

Just to throw out some more references (that you’re probably aware of):
freedom of teach dvd (he does just what you’re doing, but in maya)
goldfinger’s anatomy for the artist.

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Defago,

Thanks a bunch man. Yeah I don't know of any either off, and I have a ton of reference material. I have one book where they have 8 views of the muscles from a drawing book. But instead of basically rotating a camera around the arm they actually twisted rotated the arm which of course totally throws off everything because that means the muscles are changing from drawing to drawing. Its almost useless. I was trying to follow them only to have the different rotations throw me off at each veiw.

Yeah I saw the sample videos from that work, and I know maya along with XSI, Houdini, Max, Lightwave, Blender, and ZBrush so it was not a problem translating it into another program. I was eyeing the medical sculpture more so though. Thats what I really want to get in a few months along with the new Primal Pictures DVD set. If you have not checked out the primal pictures series do so it is really awesome. Best medical reference that I have seen yet. I can spin the models in 3D also. I do still have the should CD and they have the elbow on that CD however it stops right and the elbow so I can’t see where the muscles lead beyond.

I have the goldfinger book its pretty good but I have been relying on the Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist by Stephen Rogers Peck more so than goldfingers. Although the 2 of them make up my 2 major references. I also look at at Burne Hogarth too from time to time because some times it helps to look at the generalised form to help see the large shapes and bulges formed by all those little muscles. Some times I find it easy to get lost in defining all those muscles and forget about the over all shape and those books help put it back in perspective.

I have to get that Primal Pictures set that has been my best resource now and man I am missing not having all of it. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

[system]

Hi Nate- thought I would bring my contributions to the conversation into the forums instead of limiting them to the Hallowed Halls of Academia

Before:

In the earlier arm, you had the brachioradialis rotating naturally from the lateral origin at the distal humerus to the lateral carpals. This produced a smooth and believable rotation over the whole length of the radius. The new arm has the brachioradialis looking like it is wrapped around the arm a complete 360 degrees (like the juice bottle). You have the angle of the pollicis group (overlapping the distal radius superior to the thumb) mostly correct but the group only has 2 muscles. The distal end of the brachioradialis passes under the pollicis group and forms a smooth delta in the middle of the forearm there. I can only guess that you added those extra bumps after noting the pronator and the flexor pollicus down there? Those muscles are relatively deep and wouldn’t show up nearly as developed as you have them- nor as long.

Take a look at Plate 48 inside of Fritz Schider’s “An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists” (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0486202410/ref=sr_11_1/102-3262112-3488915?%5Fencoding=UTF8). Despite how errr… RUSTIC… some of the images are, this is an excellent reference for an anterior rotation of the forearm and the effect on the involved muscles.

EDIT: There’s a copy of Plate 48 in your In box.

Cheers yourself, kid.

Chris

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[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

I want to give a special thanks to Chris Volion for his help and illustrating where I was making my mistakes. His help made major improvements in my work on my characters arm. I had the misunderstanding that the muscles wrapped underneath the arm well they don't the kind of wrap on the side of it and the arm is not flat on the bottom its rounded and that roundness is do to the placement of these muscles. Those references were great chris they made all the difference. I have the book you were refering to, and I just pulled up the pages with regards to the arm and oh man did micheangelo nail it. Dang it I am studing him even more for now on for the human form. I know he exaggerated the form on purpose but I prefer it to see the muscle systems. I am currently working on the hands. They are far from done. I have done nothing more than the inital rough in and the large placement of forms. I have also started to do detailed sculpting of the muscles and tendons in the underside of the hand as a first rough pass. Generally I end up modeling the same forms many times before I get the surface built up the way I like and smoothing it out over and over again. It really helps me define the surface and get those shapes going and nail down my placement and forms. I also reworked the head a bit and the back got some touch ups. I have not touched the feet at all so they look pretty bad right now. I guess the question I have for the community is whether or not I should cut in the detail form on the arms the way I did the legs? The head needs more work, the nose needs more work, etc. If you guys see anything that is off please shout it out because I am getting closer and closer to the detail stage. Eventually I will sculpt in a lot of the veins and their placement. I have not decided if I am going to use projection master to stroke them on from the brushes or if I can just going to sculpt them the way I have been doing the rest of the model. I don't have enough divisions to do texturing or skin pores. I need at least 1 to 2 more divisions to get good detail on the character. I think I will wait until ZBrush 2.5 comes out for that. Chris I loved the reference to the drink bottle I was laughing my butt off when I read that. lol I Think I used that bottle as a reference the first time I modeled his arm. lol I love the jokes man have no worries there. Thanks to everyone you guys have been a big help.

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Cheers,
Nate Nesler

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[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

I am not done with the feet because I still need to add veins and see if I can't detail them one level further and do a bit of touch up but they are getting there. These feet are over exaggerated so that I can smooth them out to the desired structure for other characters. Crits are very welcome. Comments too. :) ;)

[](javascript:zb_insimg(‘36386’,‘CharacterManFeetBottom_01.jpg’,1,0))

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

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[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals

WIP Female Study this one has a very long ways to go but I am doing it much faster after working on my man so much.

Current Progress:

Cheers,
Nate Nesler

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[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Well I updated the face quite a bit fixed the nasal lavial fold. I also fixed the nose and the ears. Then I reworked the forearms and also detailed etched all of the muscles on the body. I still have to do the hands up and do a final detail pass on the feet then I can do the vein sculpts. Its starting to look pretty descent but the forearms need a lot of work. I saw a bunch of my mistakes when I was visiting with Bill where he had the Freedom of Teach Medical Model. I am seriously jealous man seriously jealous. I hope you guys like Comments but even more so crits welcome. [] Cheers, Nate Nesler

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[womball]

I’m doing something similar with a full body male anatomy study, just haven’t posted the work here yet. Some areas that I think would improve your model:
The hands are too thick, as are the fingers. I’d suggest forcing the bones out more than you think is necessary. Than smoothing it out slightly. Also the whole arms look too puffy, I think they could be scale down a bit y-axis wise. And they seem too short. My arms go to about halfway down my upperlegs. Yours goes about to the hips. I think it looks awkward to have heavy muscles and short limbs.

Does the model have skin or not? Its not apparent since on the face it looks like he has the start of older man’s face with drooping skin in the cheeks. His body looks like its hinting at a muscle study since your showing some of the muscle attachment points to the bones. This is very apparent in the knees. I don’t think you usually see the complete Sartorius muscle on weight lifters.

The lower eyelid is jutting out too far and should cling closely to the eyeball. Also trying using z-sub of 25 intensity. Mark your lines out on a higher division level than smooth those lines.At the edges of the lines you can than use a z-inflate tool with a intensity of 5 and puff up the muscles slightly. Just keep in mind that muscles are stretched and interlock with one and other frequently.