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#222

Eh… I don’t know why people consider sarcasm as “aggression”. Jeez - if one have some arguments then should bring them in into discussion, prove me wrong, open my eyes to the real thing, let me understand. And if hes wrong then admit it. Simple thing. Aggression? Come on, whats next - you gonna sue me for “verbal abuse”? :lol:
I guess that’s just me. I wasn’t raised in that soft, politically correct spirit of assertiveness. When we were thinking somebody is wrong we just said “Bulls…” instead of “my of my, you may be right but forgive me that I have a bit different point of view on that subject”. No one felt offended - we used arguments to convince each other instead of trying to make somebody guilty and posing a victim of attack. If I would have to deal with 5 years old I would try that approach but looks like we are bit older here. Anyways, I hope no one got hurt and wasn’t in need of professional help after my vicious display of aggressiveness :rolleyes: Yawn

Black is black, white is white. Its not matter of opinion. I tried to post reasons why I think comparing ZB hair system to others doesn’t make sense. I haven’t heard much arguments back - just some “ow I agree with him, or him. I wish that could be… blablabla.” I only wish we could stay on subject of software instead of some analysis of eachother emotions and motives with a bit of wishfull thinking…

Haha! Now I completely agree with that :smiley: Those guys just do what they want to do - love their attitude. Others pretend to listen to their userbase and still make it hard to be excited about their updates. Pixologic seems like is not listening users at all and is delivering most exciting updates in industry :lol:

Keep it up Pixologic - it may be harsh on somebody’s feelings and perhaps lead to temporal nervous breakdown but I don’t give a good goddamn about C4D, Max, Maya hair systems as they are completely different type of animal :wink: Sue me. I just wonder where you guys go with FiberMesh.

#223

I recently spent a number of months working for a digital effects company called “Studio Liddell” who predominantly use 3DSMax for both modelling and animation. It took me a while to integrate myself (as a zbrush artist) into the existing pipeline as for many traditional CGI, Zbrush appears to cut corners through simplifying existing workflows. New features like fibremesh will simply enhance the creative process especially at the pre vis stage.

I too read ScottM C4D’s comments as being hypercritical and I was wrong as he does raise some valid points that Im sure will be addressed and resolved and embraced by other main stream software packages. What I have witnessed through working with others who use less instinctive software is that most do indeed bend and adapt to embrace the wonderfully creative and inspired software updates from Pixologic. I sense that Pixologic have never ever set out to replace existing sophisticated workflows…they just make the most complex of existing processes accessible to less than technically minded artists (Thats me folks).

#224

Great feature!! Cant wait, thanks Pixologic!!:+1:

#225

Thats how you do it !
Great job, Pixologic !

#226

when I used dynamesh to preview the hair of my character i was so impressed, but now looks that it would be more easy with this new tool, i dreamed with a tool like this.
now i dont need to go out of zbrush to preview a model :smiley:

#227

Thankyou to those who addressed me and could eventually see the points and perspective that I was coming from, in my earlier messages, and particularly those who came to eloquently point that out to people i.e Caver, Zeddicus, Lucky_1 and those who also gave a deep insight into how different methods and systems to hair generation exist and are used from the perspective of a sculpting artist and a conventional mathematical 3D artist. It’s really quite interesting to see a different slant from a traditional modeller/sculptor.

Some of you here have mentioned in your posts that you do use C4D so I thought it would be worth posting this high quality video from grayscale gorrilla on using the Hair in it. It highlights many of the things which I listed previously http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2011/07/intro-to-hair-in-cinema-4d/

Maybe, the creators of Zbrush will enhance it’s Hair tool set, after watching…taking idea’s and innovating a similar approach as well as features.

#228

I got that same feelin when I first saw that ugly fish movie (which I came across when searching for tuts on how to make teeth in Max lol not for more programs mind you) and saw what zbrush had to offer chills up the spine, tears and an absolute desire to have this program. Bought it and have never regretted it ever.

I know programs don’t just pop out working perfectly neither do we humans lol. I had paid over $6000 for 3ds Max and regretted it big time (sorry) but everywhere I looked were bugs, no fixes and when they did fix somethings they charged an extra $1000+ for the next version and there were new problems, left over problems, and not much to show for it. I don’t even want to talk about the hair modifiers made me pull my own hair out lol. I use max little less by little less each update to zbrush and wish I could get my money back. It is also not the only one I kinda regret or barley use save for photoshop and even there I wish I could just use ZB.

The poor souls in my life have had to hear all about this prob with max and also non stop talking/swearing by pixologic/zbrush and some people don’t have anything to do with graphic arts lol.

I have also always said zbrush has something that will change the way we make art/3d in films and other things and will blow a lot of the competition in graphic art software out of the water and I was right, all of a sudden so many films, games and other things were able to make really cool looks for all their characters and environments. I also said if they get animated, hair, and a great renderer things will never be the same in graphic arts.

Now pixo got hair as well as the other things and I humbly thank you for it. I have also loved learning zbrush more than most because of all the great people who make zbrush and it’s users that make such great tutorials for me to learn from so thank you all.

Just be patent some of you, we haven’t even looked at it really yet and don’t really know what it is capable of. This movie was just a quickie taste to let us see what we are getting when we do get it then ask for more features, fixes, and stuff like that and report bugs so they can. Some or most bugs I am sure will be fixed for this patch (they called it a patch with updates/extra goodies lol not an update so to speak) just remember some things are bound to go wrong and some may still be there but I trust pixo above any software company to work at it till they can get it fixed. Every program I have ever tried or bought has had problems at first, zb is no different in that regard there is no way to stop that but pixo always tries to fix it more than I can say about most of the other companies and they don’t charge for it not even the new stuff they add in.

Also it makes it into polys so I think (hope either now or later) that we will be able to use all brushes (like the splice, cut, trimming brushes or what not to cut hair to length) or to make poly’s and then remask to make longer/shorter/fuzzier hair. It has to be in an infant form so pixo can make it right fix any problems, or whatever. He does use the move brush I wonder if you can smooth maybe if it is polys.

Also would like to say thank you for this great preview movie like I said it was like first finding out what zb can do especially that plant effect at the end. I know I soon will be able to do most if not everything in my head and never have to leave the program thank you.

Happy New Year everyone I know this will be a great one after seeing all you all come up with after getting the new zb!

#229

Working in the film industry as a digital artist for prop makers - I have been longing for a feature like this!
This feature would have been perfect when I was working on Dark shadows and Wrath of the Titans…

I look forward to the update patch.

Thank you for making an extraordinary package better and for providing the tools that make what I do on the big screen, possible.

Regards, Jet Cooper

#230

omg! is it something that you’ll never can do ???
is it something that could stop pixologic ??
i clam you as god of software !

#231

Perhaps I am one of minority but although that hair thing looks cool indeed I would definitely prefer that they fix some basic flaws of the program core design instead of all those cool but rather useless things.

Projection on multiple subtools is a pain. Thank God there is X-normal.

Retopo is a pain too that makes all that great dynamesh pretty useless.

All brushes have a single dab, not several variable ones like it’s possible in any painting software except Photoshop. An absolutely must have feature for mesh insert brushes at least.

There is no way to paint color and depth at the same time in Spotlight or any other projective way from any matching each other depth and color images. Z-project brush is a pain and doesn’t work any more.
No true alpha support in projected image with Spotlight.

Noise and material settings are still unintuitive and far from any node based control system common in other soft.

Layers is a pain. “Alt” button for eraser is a pain also and conflicts with many brush behaviors.

No way to paint non square tileable textures.

And so on and on.

#232

This is pretty cool. Forgive me if it’s already been asked but I noticed in all the examples, the hair was done all at once, would it be possible to do it in passes? Like the main hair, then a beard or something like - the top of the head, then the sides? Just curious.

#233

Figure i would ask but… Why wouldnt it be used in production?

Just wondering.

#234

This is OUTSTANDING!!! I have been struggling with hair in zBrush for a long time now and have tried many different, brushes, work flows and external programs but just cant get hair that fits the model the way i want.

Looking forward to taking this for a spin the day it comes out.

#235

That is amazing. Can’t wait to check that out.
Really awesome :>
Can we do a retopo on the fibermesh and bake a normal map etc. on it?
That would be awesome, because I read something about that is it not
Production ready and to much detail.
I really would love to know, because if we are able to do a simplified retopo and bake the high definition
that would be like christmas :smiley:

Best thanks for the great work from pixologic.
Everytime there is a new release I get even bigger eyes for this awesome program.

Cheers,
KC

#236

This is pretty cool. Forgive me if it’s already been asked but I noticed in all the examples, the hair was done all at once, would it be possible to do it in passes? Like the main hair, then a beard or something like - the top of the head, then the sides? Just curious.

Have a closer look on this video, everytime a fiber mesh is generated, a new subtool it becomes. You can generate many sub tools then with different parameters. I guess so. Let’s wait to have this beauty in our hands.

#237

I m enjoying this battle C4D vs Zbrush hair…I always thought that the program user´s fights were silly but im enjoying this one.
The hair system in c4d is great , it has everything, physics , collisions, dynamics… it´s like real hair, so cool…but…
this zb feature doesnt event pretend to have those ! it will give the artists the base so we can use the brushes and shape it the way we want it. I m sure we will see lots of great still renders of hair in zb in the near future.
as an artist I want to sculpt and model, not just set 10000000 sliders and click on play to start the simulation… that´s cool for animations but totally different aproach. so , again, I don´t want zbrush to behave as the other programs .

#238

yes michelis, this is going to be awesome. And i think we will be able to easily replicate any object on a surface… i think people will use that for many things , not just for hair or fur…

#239

Perhaps I am one of minority but although that hair thing looks cool indeed I would definitely prefer that they fix some basic flaws of the program core design instead of all those cool but rather useless things.

Projection on multiple subtools is a pain. Thank God there is X-normal.

Retopo is a pain too that makes all that great dynamesh pretty useless.

All brushes have a single dab, not several variable ones like it’s possible in any painting software except Photoshop. An absolutely must have feature for mesh insert brushes at least.

There is no way to paint color and depth at the same time in Spotlight or any other projective way from any matching each other depth and color images. Z-project brush is a pain and doesn’t work any more.
No true alpha support in projected image with Spotlight.

Noise and material settings are still unintuitive and far from any node based control system common in other soft.

Layers is a pain. “Alt” button for eraser is a pain also and conflicts with many brush behaviors.

No way to paint non square tileable textures.

And so on and on.

Yes, we are a minority here and it does not make any sense of praying for fixes here in this thread. :lol:
Seems that only few people are interested in having really working tools and features. New is better than fixed and working.
Let’s hope that ZB-hair works in the end. I hoped that as well for a lot of formerly enthusiastic welcomed ‘new’ features that I could never really use because they are too buggy until today. Looked awesome in their teasers, but were not usable in reality.

#240

Yes, we are a minority here and it does not make any sense of praying for fixes here in this thread.
Seems that only few people are interested in having really working tools and features. New is better than fixed and working.

You aren’t a minority though.
If I may, you didn’t read the announcement carefully.
“Originally ZBrush 4R2b was scheduled to be released in December and focus on fixing previously reported problems. Not fully satisfied with this original intent, we could not resist adding new and exciting features. FiberMesh is one of these features, which will have a significant impact on your ZBrush creations.”

they simply “could not resist”. So, a big thank you to pixo. I’m sure that lot of fixes of minor bugs are included.
The majority of zb users made a wish for a better retopo tool. This doesn’t make this fiber generator not welcome. On the contrary, it may become very useful on some workflow I can’t imagine now. Let’s wait a few more days.

#241

I’m sure that lot of fixes of minor bugs are included.

I hope so, Michalis.:+1:

But I have my doubths.
I use ZB for a long time now and I really like it, it is one of my main Apps for every day work.
In the beginning, I was also enthusiastic like most of the users here right now. But I calmed down my enthuiasm during the last years as I also spent countless hours of seeking crazy to impossible tweaks and workarounds for bad coded or nearly not working features and tools.
Although the Pixo-team had and has really nice ideas and I will definetely try and use the hair-tool (if it works), I will first try them out when the release is there and when they are usable.
Does anyone still remember the hype about topo-rigging and animation during the R3 pre-release ? That was one of THE main features that days. Could anyone really use it ? Did it really work ? The teasers looked awesome. I made tutorials about it. Where is it now ? Pixo kicked it out of the code with ZB4R2.
I wish I had seen one ZB release where the all the new feature worked the way they should. No problem, If pixo would use the next release to fix that and further evolve fantastic functions like Dynamesh etc… But there is always more new features and working on the existing ones seems to stay behind for the developers. And excuse me, free update or not, I would rather like to pay for a really working and good coded app as to have always a bunch of new features, but still problems with the ones I really need daily. I know my oppinion does not fit the mainstream here, but that’s the way I see it. New features ? ZB-Hair ? A big YES. But if I can have a fixed release with no new features, I personally would choose that.
And I also would pay for it.

I will applaude ZB-hair when I tried it out myself and see that it really works and that it is usable. Not a single second earlier.