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#182

Zbrush, the gift that keeps on giving! Just want to say a big thank you once again to Pixolator and all of Pixologic for expanding the tools and really allowing us character guys all the freedom we could ask for. Once Zbrush gets some good raytracing, there will rarely ever be a reason for me to go to another package again!

Question though…I’m assuming Z4R2b projects wont be compatible with Z4R2? If that is the case, I will unfortunately have to wait a few months to upgrade, seeing as my college is a semester behind on upgrades for Zbrush, meaning I wont be able to work on any of my school projects at home :(.

Anyway, thanks regardless!

#183

nope, masking would prevent you from sculpting those hairs at all.

locked length would allow you to move, sculpt and style but not allow the hair to get shorter or longer - like in real life.

#184

Scott M C4D - if you dont see a difference between rather simply FiberMESH and complex hair systems (that involve such things as particles, curves, simulations, collision detection, dynamics, gravity force, wind, stiffness etc.) only shows how much you really know (or rather DONT know) about 3D… Its the same if you start to compare Zbrush animation system to this from C4D, Max, Maya, Blender… IT HAS DIFFERENT PURPOSE! It is for giving an idea, making prototype, concept or maybe illustration. It is not made to compete with dynamic hairs from C4D or any other mayor package. Come on man - it isnt rocket science… Jeez…

#185

There doesn’t seem to have a grow, cut tool or something close to hair styling in blender, for instance. Only nice global generators and move/smooth tool after applying the mesh. (or… it may reacts with mask density?) This may means that we’ll go for multiple sub tools, longer, shorter hair etc. Something like this. We’ll manage it somehow. It looks awesome and the only danger is to fill this great forum with hair everywhere. :lol:A happy and creative new year, to all of you and especially to pixo developers.

#186

… if it will be possible to export it to something exteranl like .rib for renderman rendering, or Maya rendering in some form…

its looks very intuitive and exciting :slight_smile:

#187

Yes, it’s an impressive new feature, only the question is, how usuable it will be outside of ZB 4.
When you export that dog-fur as a poly-mesh, then good night. :cool:

Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate all new ideas of the pixo-team, they are really creative and of coarse, the updates are still free, very generous.
But let me remind that all people who use ZB not only for demos, prototypes, illustration etc. like nezumi mentioned above, would rather like to have the really necessary things for the daily work really working than all the nice and stunning gizmos of the next update that in the end almost nobody can use outside of ZB (And who beside a hobbyist use ZB alone ?).

Dynamesh is f.e. one of the most usefull and best additions pixo made for ZB within the last years. It’s fun to work with and it is usefull in the daily work, but it has still a lot of limitations and it is not easy to use a highly detailed Dynamesh outside of ZB in our main render-apps. There are problems with the texture transfer when you prepare the mesh for export-use , like decimate it or retopo (what is still a pure horror with ZBrush) etc.
And Topo-rigging is skipped at all since R2.

So, what would I personally like to have in a new update ?

  • A further evolved Dynamesh with better features for export-use, for high-detail modeling (f.e. a slider to enlarge the modelling cage over the 1024x1024 pixel-border when you have the hardware-power) etc.
  • A working retopo (I use 3D-Coat for that).
  • Since we have hard-surface-modelling, a better Canvas for a precise modelling and adjusting would be urgently needed (like the 4-view’s in C4d, Max, maya etc.)
  • a more evolved texture/polypaint function. We still have no texture layers.
  • a further evolved UV-features. The one that is implemented since a while is very basic.
  • Better than UV a UV-free texture system that gets rid of all that boring texture-distorsions (I mean a system that doesn’t need to convert polypaint into UV-texture when I use it in my main App C4d)

And a lot more.

We already have all these necessary and needfull features since months or years in ZB, but not in a way they really should work as expected.

So, forgive me when my excitement about a primitive hair feature (although it’s nice, indeed) will stay within limited borders when on the other side daily and urgently needed features still not work as they should.

#188

Some of these comments make me laugh. I wonder if every time Adobe or the like release a new update they get the ‘pro’ folks saying how will that work in a production environment. Yes you supplied hair brushes but what use are they outside of Photoshop in the 3d world???

Zbrush is a concepting, illustrating app that happens to have uses outside of itself as well but that doesn’t mean that all of the tools must be usable in other apps does it?

I see it as a way to show other companies how sculpting hair should/could be and challenges them to do away with silly string guides and old fashioned ways of styling hair within their apps. They show what could be done as a first draft and then challenge others to develop the ideas further. This would be to the benefit of all of us. How long ago was it that only Zbrush had sculpting tools of any use? How many apps now have sculpting built in. Some are useless and others are very good but they were challenged and changed the face of modelling away from zbrush.

See it for what it is and if by some chance it is fully usable outside of zbrush then cool.

Mike

#189

Zbrush is a concepting, illustrating app that happens to have uses outside of itself as well but that doesn’t mean that all of the tools must be usable in other apps does it?

Interesting point of view, Mike.

I ever thought ( and bought) ZB as the basic tool for modelling and texturing my work before I transfer it into my main app for rendering. ZB itself has lately confirmed and tightened that workflow with GoZ.
Most work we see, be it in the www, magazines, books or films use ZB in the same or similiar workflow.
ZB has lately with R2a a more or less usable render feature with the BPR. But if you use daily Vray, maxwell etc, that is not a serious option so far.
So forgive me when I cannot share your point of view, and that has nothing to do with being a pro or not.
What are new features good for when existing features (that were also excitingly welcomed some time ago) still don’t work ?

But nonetheless, it IS a nice new feature and I will definetely try it out. That is not the point. I only would like to have existing features also updated so that they work at last.

#190

Don’t worry. I’ll be on hand with a shaver in case the forum buttons start sprouting fur. :wink:

#191

Oh I most certainly would like to see them usable outside of zbrush (I detest hair work in most apps) but as I said I see it as a challenge from the zbrush folks to other companies as a ‘different’ way to create hair styles etc than the current silly string guides.

Oh and yes the ‘pro’ comment was certainly uncalled for by me. I am a prat at times. :slight_smile:

Mike

#192

Don’t worry. I’ll be on hand with a shaver in case the forum buttons start sprouting fur. :wink:

Just to be safe I suggest to get hold of an arsenal of batteries - they are coming :wink: .

#193

Zbrush for me has always been a pipeline tool, it initially fulfilled only a small part when I first had Zbrush before v2, but as time has gone, its innovative features has made me expand its uses. I don’t use every single feature in Zbrush, and im sure most here don’t use all of them either, but thats because it covers a huge scope of usages by all levels or artist.

Zbrush for me is a artist tool box, it gives me freedom to explore the artist within me, either by using the basics tools, or the more complex ones. From a character designers point of view its very handy to add hair during the building of the characters facial features, it aids in giving the overall feel of what we are trying to achieve. Hair in Zbrush is part of the production regardless if its exportable or not, that process is called design.

For the hobbyists that can just afford one app, features like this is a very welcome addition, I know when I just started out I would have loved to have what Zbrush has now, but im making a money out of 3D now, and have had to expand my tool set outside Zbrush. I take what Zbrush does well and use it, and what it dont do as well as my other apps I dont use, for me its as simple as that.

I think its a good point to end on that Pixologic didnt have to give us anything more than a service patch, so regardless of how feature packed this new Fur/Hair system is, lets enjoy this free gift and be grateful while encourage each other to be better artist.

#194

Oh my hairy-arsed Jesus!
Cant wait to get me greasy digits on this! Another gem from the agile grey matter of our benefactor Pixo!
I wonder if we’ll be able to do anything with the hair after its generated? Take a pair of scissors and a blow-dryer to it maybe? I loved the canine at the start, but can’t help wondering if he could be taken further to look like a real Afghan Hound? (my favourite mutts as it happens!) Imagine an a package which lets you cut and style hair realistically!? It would not only present new opportunities, but open Z up to a whole new audience. But we’ll have to wait and see, one thing for sure, what we get in a few weeks won’t be the final state of the hair system, like everything else in Z it will develop and grow to become the standard tool for the job.

I do get just a tad miffed when animators and game folk tell us that they are ‘professionals’, as if theres only one kind!
Some of us are professional Fine Artists, Illustrators, and other diverse creative types, and theres more of us than there are game artists!. Zbrush is, and has always been aimed squarely at artists, right brain thinkers, creative types. For that reason it will never meet all the desires of a subset of these, and as someone lucky enough to have had a glimpse into how ‘Pixolator’ thinks, I’m guessing the reason he hasn’t totally redone the topology system is that he’s waiting until he develops a system of his own devising which is easier, and importantly, more fun to use than the mathematical approach taken by the big Corporations which are run by accountants and Lawyers. It will allow us to do new things and go to new places, and won’t simply mimic C4D or 3DsM. These are exceptional packages, obviously, but Pixologic is trying to achieve different things. And thank baby Jesus and all the saints for that!

And yet another free update! All the free updates I ever got from big companies were bug fixes at best. This is beyond generous and the best argument for supporting smaller developers I can think of. If the big Cheese at Autodesk tried that he’d be searching the want ads ten minutes later! Bring it on Pixologic! Can you IMAGINE whats coming in Zbrush 5?! Maybe you just think of a model and it appears on your screen?! No! on your Desk!

#195

@slashpot:

Bravo! I second all you have said here. I am a hobbyist I guess … as far as Zbrush goes anyhow. I have been a Professional Photographer most of my life and my personal work is in a dozen Museum collections. In my lifetime some of the most serious and best photographers I have known were not professionals, they had the good sense not to get into such a cut-throat business :smiley: and worked at something else to support their “habit”.While I am still doing photography for myself I now work in a Critical Care Burn Unit (not as a photographer).

Cheers,
David :smiley:

#196

I don’t know if I should laugh or feel insulted by having my intelligence questioned and emphasised with capitalised bold yellow letters, I’m very much aware of what I’m looking at and the difference between the systems and the scope of what it will provide for it’s users. I’ve designed prototypes when I was just 9 years old like [this](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4463220/constructs model made at 9 years old.jpg), 25 years ago so I don’t need educating in terminology besides graduating with an HND in the field of interactive multimedia 3 years ago.

Rastaman pretty much fills in many area’s I would have mentioned and ultimately the underlaying points but as I said previously it’s a step in the right direction for ZBrush but existing concepts and philosophies that exist in other 3D applications highlight area’s which work very well even without the dynamics and animation capabilities that exist in them.

#197

Scott M (but this is not directed specifically and entirely at yourself),

Thanks for posting some of you work here. I look forward to seeing what you do with Zbrush in the future. We may have to agree to disagree. I’ve only been working a mere 16 years on computer graphics. Even less on 3D, but I can really say that my artistic skills have come along a long way since I picked up Zbrush (that’s not to say that I haven’t still got lots to learn).

Part of my current job is to work out where Zbrush can be used in a VFX pipeline in the studio. The last few updates that have come out haven’t changed the work-flow that much when it comes to creating animate-able assets so I have to be critical of Zbrush and it’s updates as well as working out where it could be of some real use. I, like many others, will do the re-topolgy, UVing (the texturing team will do the maps) in another 3D package.

Just recently I had chance to work on some concepts for creatures and the likes… which worked out to be perfectly timed with the release of Dynamesh. Before Dynamesh I would say that doing concepts in ZB would be a slow process. Since Dynamesh it has been a great help. I used a bit of fibres material but it has a lot of limitations and doesn’t work when doing a turntable animation. Looking at the new FiberMesh I can see that it will be a great asset for adding fur to these creatures and getting a better idea how the final characters will look when rendered.

Maybe if I wasn’t doing concepts I would find the new inclusions frustrating. So much else could be worked into and enhanced. Even though I have no inside knowledge of Pixologic and have no coding skills, I would hazard a guess that the big changes are going to come with ZB5. Hopefully Pixologic will revisit bottlenecks in the code/design that are holding it back and make it more competitive with other 3D software… but, obviously, not forgetting where it excels and why so many people love it.

Sorry for waffling on. Just making up for the lack of images I’ve updated of late. :slight_smile:

Happy new year to everyone. The quality of artwork in the forum has gone from strength to strength. Let the new year be full of inspiration and a shiny new copy of ZB. :slight_smile:

MX

#198

i want only to share with you and the pixo team that i watch the video all the time…sry that it sounds so fanboish, not my usual behavior but this feature after the new sss is the sugar icing

#199

What the

#200

Let’s forget for a second how fast and easy it is to generate FiberMesh compared to other hair systems. No face duplication, no guide curves, just a simple mask that takes all of 5 seconds, and some sliders. That’s it! How can you not see the benefit in that already? But aside from that even, the main kicker for me, is being able to use Zbrush’s amazing sculpting tools with the hair. Can you do that with C4d? Blender hair? Nope! So to even compare it to those is really not accurate, because it’s not the SAME: it has different applications. Just like the rest of the tools Pixologic are incorporating into Zbrush, it’s a faster more artistic way of tackling something that can be very very frustrating in traditional packages.

Also, I haven’t seen this mentioned in the thread at all, something else Zbrush has helped revolutionize: You might be able to print the hair! Converting the FiberMesh into a polymesh, and being able to print your entire character with their full mane is really amazing.

Anyway, not to be a fanboy, and it’s totally okay to have complaints or opposite opinions, but try to stop and think a little and you might just be a little grateful for some amazing alternative tools we’re being handed, and for free no less.

#201

Pick one. However it wasn’t my intention to insult you.

I questioned your knowledge rather then intelligence. Just so you know.

Then why you are trying to compare those very different systems with a different abilities and purposes. Again - would you compare Zbrush animation tools with those of C4D? I am guessing that no - so why in heaven you are comparing hair systems?

Good for you. When I was 9 years old I haven’t got camera to make a photo of my toys. Pardon me - PROTOTYPES.
You graduated just like thousands of others worldwide? Bravo! It just adds to a question why you are comparing the incomparable.

I dont know how many coding skills you possessed in that extensive, documented years of education that you were so nice to mention but for crying out loud - would you expect C4D to have excellent, ZB-like sculpt? How about Pixols in C4D? I guess you can imagine that under the hood of Zbrush runs very different engine then under the hood of C4D. You really think that Pixologic is inventing this completely new way of making hairs just because they like to preach to the converted? You think they could just add hairs like C4D, Maya, Max, Blender - whatever - but they decided not to just for sake of being different? Come on. Pixologic many times showed that is capable of making almost magic, but one doesn’t have to be phd to realize how different approach to 3D is in ZB. All those voices like “I want hairs like in C4D”, “I want painting textures like in Mudbox”, “I want retopo like in 3DCoat” and so on are for me… sad at best. Get real and think a bit (boo hoo, now you will get all offended and stuff, right? -____-).

And to all those “professionals” that patronize all the others - guys, many times you are just recreating concepts. Thats it. Concept artist is the one who creates ideas - then it goes to PRODUCTION. Stop being so proud and look down to others as you are in fact just cogwheels in the machine. How about that? How that feels if somebody do not appreciate your work? You working for a huge company? Good - how better does it make you if you are sitting closed in your box and just recreating concepts some ARTIST made freelancing from his own home :smiley: I am sick and tired of that preaching about complicated pipelines and how important some people feel. Well you’re not - you’re a tool, that hast to fit into existing pipeline. Production is just that - making happen ideas that are given from concept artists. Efficiently, fast, at as low cost as possible. There you go “professionals”. Now get back to your box.

PS.
Before some politically correct person start to cry how offended he is, how vicious attack he had to faced and how hateful I was towards him, blablabla ;). This only goes to those who feel better then others, who patronize and try to marginalize everybody that is not doing what they are. I know many wonderful and creative artists that are both good at concepting as well as working in a pipeline. They are however never talking from the top of the mountain, they’re humble, helpful and open minded. I guess I saw in this thread Sebestien Legrain who undoubtedly is one of the best. He wasnt picking holes in new system but was already thinking how to creatively use it. Thse are great artists - not those waving with degrees and talking ****. Happy New Year everybody.