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The OFFICIAL Monday Night Challenge Discussion Thread

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#21

The MNC was established by a small group of people who thought others could benefit from the practice and the exposure to the creative energies. It was never a Pixologic endorsed endeavor and was in all honesty never intended to be decided upon by all 5000+ members of ZBC. To say it should be now taken over by Pixologic is not an accurate assumption. Pixologic is surely going to be launching their own ideas for challenges by whatever name they so choose. It is not neccessary to turn the MNC over to other people as there is nothing broken. If anyone would wish to participate to do so they are free to jump in. The MNC was first and foremost and still is in most part designed to put forth a challenge focusing on a small group of technical features found in ZBrush. It was designed to help people learn those tools and techniques. It was never about “higher concepts of art”. I have attempted to initiate such challenges in the past but let’s face it; the majority of ZBC members do not participate. The MNC is and always will be in my mind about technical achievements…helping people learn the tools and techinques. We have attempted other “types” of challenges and no doubt will do so again but the main focus is technical skills. Anything else would be beyond the scope of the original charter. If something else is indeed desired I suggest a new challenge be created (point in fact there is NOTHING stopping ANYONE from initiating their own challenge). The title MNC belongs completely to the IRC group that created it and it belongs there. It may come to pass that in the near future that with the roll out of the new version the MNC may subside into obscurity and be completely replaced by a better embodiment of challenges by Pixologic. Such is the way with change. However, until such an occurence becomes reality the MNC is the MNC. If you wish to participate come to IRC or email someone you know that frequents there and make a suggestion.

Here is a short list of IRC frequenters:

Myself (Mentat7)
Ron Harris
MTB
TVeyes
DMerchen
Polaris
Havran
WingedOne
DeeVee
Raphael

There are others I can not remember off the top of my head.

#22

Sorry Lonnie, but at least one of the members you list, at least wants to have the discussion…I understand your proprietary feelings, but I for one find the distinction you make a very fine one. Rather than working out a method of broadening participation, you think it should be restricted to IRC participants, or those who contact same…Fair enough… :wink:

But, I do think that since it is a forum thread here at ZBC, others might have different opnions about how it could be more inclusive, and it harms nobody to entertain some ideas, and have the discussion, although your opinion is also relevant, and truth be told, a little more than most, since you have been a participant of the IRC…
But there are others with different views, most of whom haven’t spoken yet…At least we have a place for the discussion now! :cool:

#23

Ah, but Lonnie this thread is called the ‘Official Monday Night Challenge’, so it’s confusing if you’re saying it’s supposed to be unofficial. :wink: Maybe it’s time for Pixologic to start an additional challenge- a monthly OFFICIAL ZBRUSH CHALLENGE. That way you can have the Monday Night CHAT challenge too, set by MTB or rotational if you wish (you set some good challenges in the past, M7).

As I’ve no wish to become a chat member for the foreseeable future, I’d like to see a Challenge for all members. :slight_smile:

#24

That is exactly what I was suggesting Grub.

And SC…unless Pixologic wishes to create their own “Official Challenge”… and that word official was never decided upon for the MNC by the way…it needs to be removed…the MNC challenge will stand as it always has…those who wish to participate can do so through IRC, contact an IRC regular, contact one of the IRC mods (these will be posted later), or post their requests in one of the MNC challenges. I am sorry to say that it is impossible to orchestrate 5000+ members across varying time zones. The MNC is about teaching ZBrush…not about teaching art. It is a resource for people to learn the software. It was never intended for anything more. Now with that said you will be happy to know I have resigned from the MNC “board”. I wash my hands of this mess. Happy ZBrushing SC.

#25

This thread is called the " The OFFICIAL Monday Night Challenge Discussion Thread.

Just to clear that up…thanks

I also wanted to clear up that MNC is an IRC chat creation to learn ZBrush…Pixologic later showed interest in our musings and made us a nice gallery for the entries (thanks guys). This is were I think people confuse MNC as being a Pixologic instated challenge…but it is not…though…great news is that they will be making their own soon after the new release…(or something to that effect as was mentioned).

#26

The Official tag hints that the Monday night challenge is the Official ZBrush challenge, Mahlikus. What do you think about rotating it from member to member?

#27

Sorry to hear that you have ‘resigned’ from the MNC Lonnie, but frankly that has nothing to do with me, or in fact this general discussion…What you choose to do at MNC is definitely your business…

And ‘Happy ZBrushing’ to you, Lonnie… :cool:

#28

I am sorry to sat that i took it upon myself to start the irc-MNC up again…not knowing what it stood for on all levels. One major one being the interactivity of members in IRC. Afterward…those of us in irc discussed new topics. I am not in control of MNC…I do know that after this challenge…The traditional halloween gallery starts…(if pixologic starts it again this year). So there will not be one for a month after this…I haven’t discussed this with the other IRC regulars but I am pretty sure that this is the case unless we come up with something to add.

#29

Yeah, but MTB what’s so hard about rotating the challenge round the members? This would solve a lot in making the challenge free to all. We can then get back in the spirit of sharing… That means all the ZBC members, not just the chat group, can have blast at it. :slight_smile:

PS I’m glad you’re agreeing that there should be a Halloween Official ZBrush challenge. :+1: :+1:

#30

hmmm Mike what are you apologizing for? The irc channel isnt going away. We have stated a way for all to become involved…as it was stated in public a long time ago when similiar issues were presented, and issues of people wanting into the chat but werent able to get there due to time restraints or computer and program issues…The rotation stopped due to people not showing up regularly on the chats. Then the way it’s done now came to be. Nothing wrong with it…and though the irc group posted the challenge all members were invited to participate. This discussion thread seemed to be started due to the themes being picked…a villain or monster can also be created using a storm or fire or something like that rather than a regular monster like we normally see and that I always do…I own that particular irc channel…but the members run it…and members being anyone that wants to log in there…Mike was kind enough to take the reigns and do the posting of the challenge…he doesnt pick the challenges though he does have input as does everyone…when he posts on the threads for the MNC that is as a mouth piece for the group. Group being, once again, whoever joins. I personally was away for several months from the chat this summer. hmmmm well that is something for everyone to ponder over…but personally I dont mind him posting the challenges…it makes him feel good about himself and he is familiar with the wording for it…and honestly alot of people when asked before to do the postings of the new mnc’s seemed very disinterested in that part of the business…and would ask others to do it…if you remember I posted them for a good while…then it got tedious and I would hand it off to another member…but just because I got lazy about it…anyhoo…just had some more thoughts that I had wanted to share on the subject.

#31

Well, more the reason for it to be run by a mod.
However, I honestly don’t see why it can’t be passed around- there’ll always be somebody to take it up, especially since the Challenge has got bigger now. I said before that I was not asking for myself, but maybe some time in the future if the challenge was properly rotating I might enjoy having the chance of doing it. Why can’t everybody have the chance? That’s not a big thing to ask.

#32

Will you make the decision on who will take the reigns Rob? What will you do when that person doesn’t follow through? What do you do when it happens again and again? We make those decisions in the IRC on a weekly basis because those very problems exist. The MNC was created by the ZBRush chat group. If anyone wishes to have an input on it they are free to join that group. There are no restrictions. Several people that have voiced their opinion here on how the MNC should be changed were in fact solicited to join but summarily snubbed us. I am sorry but if someone doesn’t wish to participate then they do not deserve a controlling interest in the MNC. Consequently the MNC is a privately operated enterprise. If you wish to change the MNC I suggest you create an all new challenge and ask for sponsorship by Pixologic, the MNC by the way is NOT sponsored by Pixologic, call it a different name other than MNC and leave the MNC alone. It will probably disappear of its own accord eventually anyway. As I have said before I believe Pixologic is going to create their own Official Challenges.

Changing the MNC is not a debateable issue. Ownership of the MNC remains in the IRC chat group and will remain that way.

#33

well the challenges were dropped due to lack of interest and participation. Mike revived it. This is a good thing. Let’s hope it stays alive. Something I do want to illustrate, is the thread I started on the forum a little bit ago. There can be as many challenges as can be posted. It’s all about interest in the forum. If no one posts then it dies. That kinda happened apparently with the KenB threads. Notice they kinda died off. Good reference threads but no longer really alive. It is like tv and Neilson ratings…if the ratings arent there the show goes away. Same goes for these thread. MNC was rumored to be ran by pixologic for a while. I never saw that happen and the members took it upon ourselves to grab the ball and run with it. But once again it boils down to interest and participation. In the past several months we have had a lot of great young blood enter the forum here. So interest is back on learning. What do they want to learn. Well they apparently all want to learn to do heads. (some of us never quit doing those…they are so much fun)we are back to square one…and the challenges have to be kept with the new members of the forum in mind to keep it fair. Like you Grub, your modeling is outstanding…what challenges you? I have not seen second rate stuff come from you. Its always been top notch. Look at all the members also taht could be responding to this discussion group? Are they interested or is it just a small minority of the people that are here now on the thread?

#34

I’ve already responded to your challenge thread Ron… :wink:

I can see how it might involve a lot of organisational skill to keep things going on the MNC, but all I was proposing in the beginning is that there were more diverse subjects for artistic endeavour available.

So, I think we should all take it easy, have a good time, and enjoy the ideas, and ‘challenges’ how we see fit. :cool:

[Edited By Moderator]

#35

well I observed Mike having to take the defensive over doing somethign positive on behalf of alot of people. Intiative…and some were threatened by this for wahtever reason. Because the over tone was that suddenly he was in an apologetic state and really for no reason. Some things have been said that might suggest trying to take over what the members started. That is what might bother me. Not that others couldnt do as good if not a better job, but it is the point of matter. We already fixed the original topic with another thread as you saw and replied to, SC. If we get the caht group up in numbers things could be alot more involved with the group as a whole. And the baton could be passed around again as it was originally.

#36

I hear ya, guys. But where’s the animosity- it’s just a healthy debate to me, cleans out the cockles. :smiley: It sounds good about the proper Pixologic Challenge- to me that’s the way forward. I think the confusion stems from MNC being the chat members idea and therefore the question of who has input and who’s running it follows. But put that to one side, I think if Pixologic started up a proper ZBC Challenge it would snowball from there. Who will participate remains to be seen, but we can only find out if it’s started up. :wink: :+1:

Well, I’ve voiced my opinions and I hope people respect that. As I respect all your opinions- here’s to a friendly forum whoever is running challenges. :slight_smile: At the end of the day it’s about having fun. :+1:

#37

:+1:

#38

Me too… :+1:

#39

SC, Grub, with all due respect I think that you are missing the point. If you feel some resistance from the IRC group is because the MNC is their baby. It was started by them not by Aurick or Pixolator. And as such they are within their right to deside what kind of format it should have. And they have that right not only because they created it but because they maintained it as well. The reason because it’s so popular right now it’s because they took the time to deside the topics, post images, support people who posted their own images, as well as providing explanations on how they created their work (Mentat particulary). Furthermore, they are not creating a private club that only a few can join, from the begining they have invited everyone to participate. For a time there was talk of meeting at different times to accomodate those who could not meet Monday nights (which i guess did not pan out due to lack of interest).

Another thing that I think you misunderstand and that Mike(MTB) seems to be getting some flak from is that things are desided by comittee at the MNC. It’s not a matter of passing around the desition of what the topic is going to be. Everybody proposes a topic, then those topics are discussed and finally one is chosen. If Mike deside it some of the recent topics is only because he was the one who brought the MNC back with some very popular ideas for the challenges. On the last night I was at the IRC we all agreed that he should post the topic.

Another thing that I don’t understand is why do you have to take the challenges so literally Stonecutter. If you want to challenge yourself in a more creative way, why not take a creative approach to the topic. As an example: this week’s topic was Monsters. You don’t have to do a classic monster head if you don’t wish. There are many different kinds of monsters in this world not all of them physical. Goya wrote in one of his paintings: “El sueno de la razon produce monstruos” , The sleep of reason Produces monsters. Doesn’t that seem more up your alley. You could post a very creative and challenging work within the context of the topic.

I know you mean well. And I hope that you understand that I also mean well. Always a fan of your work Rob.

#40

100% on the money Raphael! :+1: :wink:
And if you check, you’ll find that all the way through here, I have stated that I had no say over the challenge, since I DIDN’T paticipate on the IRC chat…So, all I was doing was discussing some general ideas, which I would hold is a positive, not a negative, nor an indication that I missed any point…And…ALL the way through I have recognised the work done by those members who do choose to participate in the IRC…They deserve respect for their time and effort. I do not feel threatened by new ideas, nor am I enchanted by old ones…

And, if you check the ‘Monster Challenge’ thread, you’ll find that I HAVE come up with a non-conventional idea for a ‘monster’, and you’ll be seeing it soon there! :smiley: So, in no way am I, (or my iimagination), restricted, or in fact affected in ANY way, by the IRC chat, or any rules they might have for their challenges…I particiated in the last one, ‘Mascot’, and am also participating in this latest one…I merely wanted an open discussion, and thanks to Aurick, we have a place for that…

Cheers, Raphael! :sunglasses: