ZBrushCentral

Ken Brilliant Lesson 8 -- UV Mapping

PARENT-MAIN CHILD-ZBrush Tutorials Forum
#41

There is absolutely nothing broken there. Unless you read up on UV mapping and the associated texture mapping results, you will not understand what you see. There is actually nothing ‘wrong’ with what you have there. You just might not expect how it looks. Zbrush creates great UV layouts when you understand what it generates. There are also quite a few ways how to layout a sphere.
So, go and study the background of UV mapping and then try to understand why things look as they do. No ‘guru thing’ involved, no magic. Plain basics…
Cheers
Lemo

PS:Except for GUV and AUV tiling, I do not use the other UV generator options in Zbrush because of the way they lay out the UV’s. And there is no need for it either as every 3D app has great UV editors build in. GUV and AUV generation on the other hand is something no other app has.

#42

thaks for your reply lemonnado.
it doesn’t help me anyway

#43

Google for UV Layout… Or give up and pick up Golf :smiley:
Lemo

#44

Whow… you’re a Hero!

A Forum is good just why people like you are a great help for people like me.

Do you know… I try to study very hard in my High School (Grafik Design), I try to be a good father for my doughter (1,5 years old) I cant move from my bed after a painfull operation (left legs)… you are full of wisdom…now I will now spend my time on Google…that’s a great help for me…tanks !!
And for sure, before i go to sleep i will pick up Golf just for you, for my personal Hero… a man full os wisdom!!!

Thank you for your great help.

#45

What ZBrush is doing…is thus :

With the sphere, it is taking the sphere and basically unwrapping it casing a “split” down 1 side of the sphere. This is done to wrap everything around it…BUT…now this is what causes the horribleness…the side that is “split” is actually just stretched out causeing it to map way more than the required section.

ZBrush is flattening the object but where the edges of the UV map are…the UV’s dont just end and seam up…there is a row of UV’s that have been stretched to make sure the map is a whole.

Hope that makes sense…this is the conclusion i came to…and it proves correct whith everything i have tried.

Its not a solve…so we are going to have to find a work around…

#46

Mr Ghost… Tanx.
I don’t know how to solve it but i know what’s appening !!!

Tanks a lot that was what i need to do!!

Now i will spend my time on Google (a very good friend of mine… forget it)
Ok i will research…now i know what’s wrong

#47

No prob Moka :slight_smile:

If you intend to to stay in zbrush mainly with not excessive use of photos as a base to paint on, GUV and AUV tiles are you best bet…otherwise…and its a bit of a pain…but you could take your model out of ZBrush into a program like 3ds Max or Maya…do the required mapping there and reimport into ZBrush.

ZBrush has no problems that i have encountered handling those UV maps. Just avoid overlapping UV’s…if they overlap and you drop the model to paint on : when you pick it up colour flings everywhere cause you are painting on UV’s relating to various parts of your model.

Thats 1 work around i suppose :stuck_out_tongue:

#48

This is a known ZBrush anomaly with cylindrical and spherical mapping. IT DROVE ME NUTS WHEN I WAS SCRIPTING MY MAP-IT PLUGIN.

What is happening appears to be a fundamental mapping problem in the original ZBrush code and I’ve not been able to discover a work around.

What causes it? Take an example where a spherical map is subdivided into 10 rows and columns. The final row (and column) should connect between .9 and the edge of the seam, .99999. Instead of taking the last 1/10th of the map info as you would expect, it REVERSES DIRECTION and maps ALL of the texture info (.9 to .8 to .7 to .6 to .5 to .4 to .3 to .2 to .1 to ZERO) and crams it into the final row and column. So the first 9/10ths of the map gets reapplied in the final row and column. See example.

I’m guessing there is some standard UV coder’s solution to this explicit problem that simply isn’t properly implemented in the spherical and cylindrical mapping in ZBrush. Maybe it will be resolved in ZBrush release 3.0?

Sven

[attach=53267]mapping question.jpg[/attach]

Attachments

mapping question.jpg

#49

Hi guys and although I appreciate that there are always workarounds I must state that these types of problems are really the antagonist to artistic freedom and ease of use.
It should be adressed by the Pixologic people because people like me do not want to do a course in UV mapping 101 every time we start with a new program etc.
This mapping discrepancy is not only stupid but also irritating and I am sure that the people who are experts will say “go learn” or “go google” but that is just silly.
The program should have a seemless method for handling imports and exports for objects from the main 3D programs and that is the job of the Pixologic people.
It is their responsibility to present a workflow ready system and not ours to work out workarounds that are far from satisfactory and always annoying.
My time is valuable to me and I do not want to spend time on research on stuff that should just work!
Now I am sure that this will cause umbrage to some and I will get a few flames from some people but that is exactly how I feel and I have no problems with stating this.
I am an artist and not a programmer and it seems like these days that getting a handle on software requires far too much learning because the manner of the GUI and its workflow are so convoluted. Maybe there is no way to avoid this and get all the goodies that these proggies offer us and maybe this is the dillemma that faces the modern digital artist and maybe we MUST go thru all these learning curves but hey that really is a bit of a roadblock for the artist.
I have spent a lot of time learning a lot of proggies and so know what it means to become proficient in digital creation but it was a slog and things like mismatched UVs between proggies are just plain annoying.
OK Now Flame me !

#50

nobody will flame you !!!
I’ so glad that someone understand what i mean!!!
I subscribe completely you thread

Zoopi for president !!!

Pixologic…did you ear this one ??? I hope that

#51

I still don’t understand what the problem is. Import whatever geometry you like, then hit, AUV or the GUV button and you are done with UV mapping. Instant distortion free UV map. Ready to go, add paint or texture.
Lemo

PS: Mismatched UV’s between applications??? Do you have an example?

#52

I think people are talking apples and oranges. Lemo is arguing that inside ZBrush, GUV or AUV mapping will provide an adequate, distortion-free, UV layout, and he’s right - as long as you start out applying a blank map, then create the texture by direct painting or using Projection Master. Applying any pre-existing image-map to GUV or AUV mapped objects will turn the image into a scrambled patchwork quilt across the model, probably not what is wanted.

However, other mapping methods provided by ZBrush, specifically spherical and cylindrical mapping (or planar mapping for that matter), would be used to apply pre-existing maps to models, especially simpler models like spheres and cylinders (and dinosaurs.) GUV and AUV mapping won’t easily work in those cases. Another often-used option is to export the model to some other 3d package or UV Mapping utility, apply appropriate UVs, and re-import to work inside ZBrush.

My previous post was only meant to address the seams question Mr Ghost asked concerning the anomaly in his sphere3d, after applying spherical mapping inside ZBrush. Demonstrably, there IS a problem along the seams when ZBrush generates cylindrical and spherical maps. And, I’m convinced it’s fixable because the mapping on the parametric primitives - sphere3d, cylinder3d, square3d and others, do NOT have this anomaly.

Sven

#53

The Problem is:

We want not to hit, AUV or the GUV button!!!
We need Spherical or Circular UV mapping.
We need to edit the texture in external programms like photoshop.
Did you tryed to edit a AUV texture …I don’t like it.

Why are the botton UVS and UVC there if this mappings doesn’t works??
(scuse…can be that some programmers know how to make this botton working with some patience… I’m not a programmer i hate programmation … for me it doesn’t work. I need a software “easy to use” (or better… a working software) like Maya and I hope ZBrush3 will be something like that)

I FORGOT … I didn’t import anything… I work JUST with ZBrush I used ONLY ZSphere

I tank you all

Lemonnado your help is ever incredible

#54

Moka,

Excuse me, I don’t work here. I am a ZBrush user just like you, and I’m frustrated by the spherical and cylindrical mapping problem just like you.

I understand that you want to be able to enhance the texture map inside Photoshop. But like it or not, the ZBrush mapping problem exists. Maybe they will fix it in ZBrush 3, but that’s no help now (maybe on May 15th…)

I guess you have several options to work around the problem.

  1. Hide the seam (like on the underside of the dinosaur.)

  2. Export the model and apply UV Mapping using an outside program, then bring it back in to ZBrush to paint the texture. You could then use Photoshop to refine the exported texture map. One very handy FREE utility can be downloaded here - >>> Classic UVMapper <<<

  3. Experiment with GUV or AUV mapping and use >>> Zapp Link <<< to work on the texture in Photoshop.

  4. Learn to play golf until May 15th.

Sven

#55

Sven tank you !!!
You gave me the answer i need.
For some people like lemonnad people like me have to solve the problem in google… that’s why I feel I make a mistake that I can’t understand.
Now I know… ZBrush2 have a bug, now I have to whait.
Fine now I know it and I have no problem with that.
Sometimes in this forum that’s people that spend the time waisting the time of people like me… but just sometimes.
I’m glad that people like you save my time!!
Now i know…and i can spend my time with my doughter and my wife and not in google.

Ok People:

1 thats a problem
2 that problem will still there
3 we have to work around it

I’m happy … tonight i will sleep better :smiley:

#56

“I work JUST with ZBrush I used ONLY ZSphere.”
No problem with that. And as long as you do not want to learn how to unwrap a structure like the dinosaur, you have to work with GUV and AUV and paint/texture your model within ZBrush.

Again, there is nothing ‘broken’ in Zbrush. It’s limited in what it can UV map for you. That is true. For example it completely lacks cubic mapping… But on the other hand, it gives you two tools no other application offers to allow you to map UV’s as artist. GUV and AUV. Without engineering degree. The only limitation is that you are unable to edit those maps in an external 2d image editor later on.

Your idea to use spherical and or cylindrical projection to map a structure like the dino in this thread is flawed, it will result in massive distortions. You will not be able to achieve any result that way. Regardless which program you use to apply that mapping. A distorted map cannot be edited in an external 2d program as well. You would have to change brush characteristics constantly to allow for the distortion once the texture is projected. It simply does not work.

You either use GUV and AUV which does not demand any thinking beyond that. Or you learn how to use an external UV mapper like UVLayout from Headus which allows complete artistic freedom. No programing or engineering degree necessary and only a hand ful of commands to know.

It would be nice to have a function like UVLayout in ZBrush… But a node based procedural material system, a bucket renderer, animation… as well…

So, you have two alternatives. Use GUV and AUV without much thought and paint/texture in ZBrush. There is nothing wrong with that! Your 3D app of choice can and will be able to use those maps.
Or go and look at ‘UV unwrapping’ in depth and be able to use a 2D program to paint/correct textures or apply existing textures.

Lemo

PS:here is a sample of a simple ZSphere object unwrapped in UVLayout in about 10 seconds total after loading the geometry.
stinger1.jpg
The GUV layout… unless you know what square maps to which part of the geometry… no way to manually edit this:
[attach=53315]sting2.jpg[/attach]
The cylindrical and Spherical mapping is just garbage, so I do not post that waste of time, but here is a UVLayout’ed top and bottom ready to be painted in any 2d Prog( This is the style you want!):
[attach=53316]sting3.jpg[/attach]
But… for the sake of seams another alternative might be chosen. That’s why there cannot be an automatic way:
[attach=53318]sting4.jpg[/attach]

Nice result, no distortions!:

[attach=53321]sting5.jpg[/attach]

It would be great if there would be an automatic way and I agree that this technicality is making life difficult. But you have the two choices.

The images btw. are from an upcoming UV layout tutorial. It’s a thorough tutorial. Covers ZBrush, XSI, C4D, BodyPaint, PS. After working through that… no polygon is save.

PPS: I don’t know why you consider a goggle for ‘uv mapping’ as waste of time. The first three links are to excellent tutorials and the fourth is a link to a nice tool. I think you like to complain ;). Now relax and unwrap 8).

Attachments

sting2.jpg

sting3.jpg

sting4.jpg

sting5.jpg

#57

I am still of the opinion that what I said about a workflow smoothness needed in Zbrush regarding this matter should be a major goal of the Pixologic people in any future releases.
I see the workarounds and the other info that Lemonado refers to is also good and deals with the present reality nicely.

I look forward to his new UV tut ie Lemonado and I hope all can sleep well tonight.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Already sleeping haha
Ciao

#58

Hey Folks,
maybe I’m crazy(probably), but the whole idea of needing to “Flay” one’s sculpture to then paint it on a flat surface seems, well, moribund.

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2002/06/22.html
"A man walks in to a Tattoo Parlor, and says;
“Hey Buddy, can you do a nice evil dragon wrapped around my arm?”
The tattoo artist says;
“Sure, but i am going to have to peel your flesh off, and lay it on my table to do so…”(!?!)

Well, it’s just one man’s opinion, and we all have an opinion, just like we all have an “Inner Extrude” button…

#59

Spherical and cylindrical mapping may be garbage but there are still a few people who use it to great effect… like >>> HERE <<< :smiley:

Sven

#60

Ich weiß es nicht ob ich dich lieben oder hassen soll…
Ich glaube, langsam, mag ich dich.

Grüße aus Freiburg