zModeler with limited capabilities & missing poly targeting

[AlexxCentral]

Hello,

I want to point out some big deficits of zBrush for very basic tasks in clean up workflows,
which is more important than ever especially with the new fields of photogrammetry, but also any hardsurface modelling.

For example for targeting on bad geometry, which is mostly deriving from single polygons, that were wrongly created by zRemesher and need always to be deleted).

ZModeller Masking single Polygon:
It is not possible to mask a single polygon. You will always select more than one even if you have “single polygon”
See attached screenshots, where I mask a single polygon and want to hide it.

Standard Masking missing capability:
Besides that it should be possible with the standard masking tool (CTRL-key) to mask a single polygon, and to refine your masking selection with a 100% precision) without having to go away from your current tool.

ZModeler moving single Polygon:
The workflow is a hazzle. You need to press Shift, for not to align the single polygon, but if you press it immediately you switch to the smooth tool.
Besides that it does only work without layers and SubDic-Levels.

Draw Size of 1 BUG:
Bug with pressing ALT-Key and sculpting with Draw size1.
(can happen also unintentionally when trying to mask details)
Mesh will moved without warning and randomly.

Missing option for “Selecting” instead of “Masking”:
Any other application allows you to directly select mesh small parts.
In ZBrush we only mask mesh parts and need to invert the masking selection.
There should be an additional mode.

Thanks for reading…

Attached screenshots only for zModeler Mask single Polygon-Bug:

Masking “single Poly”

Result of hiding “single Poly”

Look also at this thread:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?212557-Critical-Bug-localized-in-Zbrush2018-meshes-moving-when-brush-size-is-1&p=1233573#post1233573

[Extra_Dimensional]

I agree Zmodeler needs some more refining and can be very frustrating at times when it makes a simple task more “zbrushy” than what you’re used to in like…all other modelling apps. Such is the Tao of Zbrush though. It does it’s own hipster thing :lol:.

As far as what you’re doing, Hover a point instead of a face and hit Transpose Point with the spacebar. (brush size at 1 for vert manipulation). Then the faces around the point will be masked leaving only the adjoining faces unmasked. You can “slide” the vert around in place with the gizmo after hitting “Align to unmasked mesh center” on the gizmo, which will send it to center on your vert and going into Ortho view (non perspective). Moving side to side or up and down while in ortho view will slide the point around as well as it’s adjoining line segments. And you can manipulate that single vert this way using the gizmo. Just do point operations instead of facet (face) operations using Zmodeler instead.

If you absolutely must just have one face selected with nothing at all else you can polygroup a single face and apply your operations using the polygroup all target. Of course that will still manipulate any adjoining edges to that face though but such is the way of all modeling, faces are connected by edges to other faces. When you move one face you move it’s edges, which are the edges of other faces so those faces are changed too! Hence Zbrush leaving them unmasked since they get affected as well by default. So that explains the default masking idea behind what Zbrush does by default, but there’s another way!

You can create a polygroup from a single poly and by selecting the Select Lasso brush when holding Ctrl Shift click, you can then Ctrl Shift click a single VERT on any other part of another polygroup and it will hide just that single poly polygroup you made, or alternatively you can Ctrl Shift Click a single FACE on any other polygroup and it will hide everything else EXCEPT that single vert polygroup Must have the Lasso select brush active though! Which is Zbrush arcana that you get used to.

[Cryrid]

ZModeller Masking single Polygon:
It is not possible to mask a single polygon. You will always select more than one even if you have “single polygon”
See attached screenshots, where I mask a single polygon and want to hide it.

Standard Masking missing capability:
Besides that it should be possible with the standard masking tool (CTRL-key) to mask a single polygon

I think this is a misunderstanding of how masking actually works. Masking is the same concept as polypainting, or vertex coloring in other 3d programs. A single vertex is a single vertex - it can’t exist in multiple states at once. So when you give those points a mask value you will see that value visually bleed over to neighboring polygons because those polygons share the very same points that you are masking. It’s like sharing a fence with a neighbor; if they pull it down then you’re going to see their whole yard because there was only one fence, not two. The only way to mask or paint a single polygon without affecting any other polygon is to make sure that the polygon in question has its own unique vertices that aren’t shared with any neighboring faces. In other words you have to unweld the polygon to split the vertices off into new ones (and that would certainly screw with the vertex order, which isn’t something you want a standard masking brush to be capable of doing).

ZModeler moving single Polygon:
…Besides that it does only work without layers and SubDic-Levels.

Layers and Sub-D data relies heavily on their vertex order to be left intact, and there are very few zmodeler options that would leave those alone (and some of the remaining operations would be rendered pointless too, for example: having several levels of vertex positions stored via sub-d levels should override any crease tags that are added in after the fact).

They probably could grey-out 98% of the Zmodeler popup menu when these subdivision or layer data exists on a Tool, but I can see it being less of a headache to just to a blanket ban the entire zmodeler brush as a way to teach users that this tool is not really meant to be used mid-sculpt in conjunction with sculpted subdivision data (which is not like Dynamic Subdivision / the subdivision behavior that you will find in other 3d programs).

Draw Size of 1 BUG:
Bug with pressing ALT-Key and sculpting with Draw size1.
(can happen also unintentionally when trying to mask details)
Mesh will moved without warning and randomly.

I can’t get this to work on my end regardless of how often or sporadic I click, it just makes small dots on the mesh like I would expect. Same with masking. Are there any additional settings on the brush other than Draw Size (dynamic size on/off doesn’t make a difference for me either).

Missing option for “Selecting” instead of “Masking”:

I think a ‘Visibility’ Polygon Action would be a great addition (with the usual polygon Target option list, and Modifiers options to either hide or isolate whatever target is clicked).

[AlexxCentral]

Hi,

many thanks for your detailed answers!
(I was offlne a while ago, so comes my late response)

I still think something like a face selection (or face masking) would be a good basic to “invent” some day for zBrush.

I also know the temporary polygroups from zModeler, but this has all limitations of zModdeler and it is of course overwwriting any existing polygrouping.

For the “draw size 1 bug”, I already looked at all my settings, but I will check again. In the meantime I try not to use size1 for sculpting.

Thanks!