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#41

I love the idea about painting on the topology, especially since i’m ready to start creating models specifically with animation in mind. Pixologic would be downright silly not to at least look at exploring the idea.

Until that topology brush comes along here’s some guidance that I took from Skycastle (Dave Cardwell of WETA Digital) that i’m about to put into practice:

“One workflow I would recommend for people
is to build a small library of properly edge flowed/UVed meshes. Then just use Zbrush to create variations. Its way faster
than any app I know of right now for the
sculpting part.”

I haven’t started creating the library just yet because i have some other meshes i’m working on, however. I think a low res properly flowed library would be something we all could benefit from (until that topology brush comes). Now where do we make the low res geometry? Well, Skycastle usually makes his in another application. I remember hiim saying that it was possible in zbrush but he was just in a workflow that he was already used to.

Also let’s be sure to check out Pusghetty’s Satyr ( http://209.132.68.66/zbc/showthread.php?t=020353 ), from which i understand is completely zbrush, and created from zspheres…and it animates very well.

I guess, in the present state of zbrush, if you’re planning to create a model for animation and you want to stay completely in zbrush for the modeling, when you first create your zsphere model that blocks out all of your proportions, before you begin dividing and sculpting any further, take the time push your vertices at the low res state so that you have some properly flowing edges (and if need be, convert the mesh out of it’s zsphere form and use the edge loop feature to cut some edges in).

#42

The problem is, abxy, that you don’t really have control over your lowPoly Mesh in ZBrush. It’s often not just a matter of pushing and pulling points, it’s often a matter of giving the model a whole new flow.

But, I don’t even want to have that kind of control in ZBrush. I don’t want ZBrush to also evolve into a good lowPoly Modeler. What ZBrush really needs, if it wants to stay competitive (although it’s already in some kind of niche), is an equivalent to Silos Topology Brush. I’m sure we’ll see that in the upcoming ZBrush versions, that’s just a must-have for a digital sculpting program. That’ll be the way to refine topology in the future.

I think it’s not necessary anymore to build up lowPoly stand-ins with proper Edge Loops, UVs, etc. - With smth like Silos Topology Brush there’s no need to “cheat” anymore. Painting your Edge Loops won’t take a lot of time and, you know, every face is different, every character is different. I think it would higher the quality you would achieve if you’d paint the Loops specifically for each model.

Doing something like that from scratch for each model won’t be too time-consuming, I think that’s the way everyone will work in the future.

I guess Pixolator and his team are already working on something like the Topology Brush, shouldn’t be too hard to implement into ZBrush after all - Hell, sculpting characters will be even more fun! :slight_smile:

#43

Saw this thread back up, and had a question since I didn’t go back beyond a few threads.

I am guessing that this topology brush you are referring to in Silo I think it was allows you to create edge loops in any subd level? Am I wrong in this or no?

I ask because there are many times I would like to edge loop a model in zb but can only do it in lowest subd level and it doesn’t work out when isolating the mesh to edgeloop in higher levels then go back to lowest. It’s frustrating because my brain is to busy seeing my intention and not all the small steps needed to get there.

Anyways, I am wondering if that is the intention of this brush…to create edgeloops in a mesh at anylevel or if you have to draw them at the level you wish then revert back to the first level? If so then zb does that already but not exactly with intended results.

So if someone could fill me in on how this theoretical brush would work in z2, I would appreciate it.

#44

Hey Aminuts,

Just watch the Demonstration Video of the Topology Brush:

http://www.silo3d.com/Videos/topology.avi

It should be pretty self-explaining. The exact workflow would be:

  1. Rough out a shape with ZSpheres in ZBrush.
  2. Sculpt, until you’re satisfied with the Details. You should have roughed out all the details you want to see in your lowPoly Mesh.
  3. Export your model to Silo and “paint” a new Model based on your ZBrush Mesh with the Topology Brush.
  4. Export to ZBrush and sculpt Displacements and/or Normal Maps.

And that’ll be all. No time-consuming pushing and pulling verts for good loops anymore.

#45

Thanks for the link, Thomas! I should be able to see it by sometime tomorrow hahahahaa…sigh…it sucks being stuck in the 1990’s computerwise.

I reckon, you will be right tho, it should answer some questions for me so thank you for taking the time to post this link! hahahaha woe is you though if it creates more questions! hahaha

#46

wow, that topology brush is nice, seems like something that should already belong to zbrush… also, check out this video(quicktime video) of this new modeler, ‘modo’ (who’s UI looks strikingly similar to zbrush) by a company called luxology and a feature in it that lets you spin the edges of your mesh allowing you to change the flow your mesh:

http://video.luxology.com/modo/video/workflow/modo_EdgeSpin.mov

Seems really useful for changing the flow of your low res zsphere mesh (or any mesh really). So with that feature your workflow would be:

-make low res mesh in zbrush with zspheres
-export the model to modo and spin the edges to create a proper flow
-export back to zbrush for subdivision and sculpting
-export to your animation package

granted that you’ll lose your pose 2 pose-ness of your zsphere model, you’ll at least know that your model will deform how you want it to when it’s time for animation because you changed the flow much earlier on before you even began really sculpting.

what do you all think?

between this and silo’s topology brush it seems like correcting the flow of your models can be done for your zbrush models at an early stage that won’t conflict when it’s time to really start sculpting.

#47

I think you did not really understand the Edge Spin feature - it’s not as handy as you might think…

#48

Oh, one more thing…if SkyCastle is paying attention to this thread, i’d like know what he has to say about the silo topology brush and the modo spin egde tool because even he said at one point or another that he often just scuplts the mesh in zbrush, then goes back later and traces a new mesh based off the sculpted one in another app with better flow which could take days, weeks, and months. All so the model can be animation friendly. SkyCastle do those 2 methods look like nice solutions to meticulously tracing?

#49

How so Thomas?

#50

Cause the Edge Spin does exactly what the name implies - It spins the edge. It just looks cool in the video, cause you see the derivative shape, but I don’t think it’ll be even close to ideal for refining your ZBrush Meshes.

And, think about it, you’d be a lot faster painting your geometry than meticulously spinning edges one at a time…

The upcoming modeling tools seem pretty cool, for Maya Users Silo seems to be the first choice (although it definately lacks of some essential core features like snapping (you’re constrained to grid snapping) and other things, so I won’t use it as my main modeler), Wings3d is a great Nendo Clone (and is free!), Clay3d seems very promising, Modo could be great and I still hope that Mirai 1.5 rushes in someday…

Well, we’ll see!

#51

well, with spinning edges or not. the topology brush in silo seems to be very nice. I’m gonna go ahead and download the trail and see how well the feature works in practice…this is exactly what was mentioned earlier in the thread about how “it’d be cool if zbrush let you do this”, is it not?

#52

That’s the point, but it was mentioned already 2 years ago!

I think Silos Topology Brush will be pretty much awesome in combination with High Res Data (Be it ZBrush Models or Scanned Data) - But we have to wait until 1.3 is out… (I’d love to be a Beta Tester! :wink:

#53

Ah, the feature isn’t out yet? When’s this 1.3 supposed to appear?

#54

Ok, pardon me for taking so long to recognize the beauty in this Silo feature…and my i say…HOLY CRAP! That feature is so awesome…finally no more worries about topology at ALL! Zbrush in combination with that feature will let you create anything and have it animation-ready in no-time! Can’t wait!

#55

#56

hah, and it’s as simple as that, huh? This is excellent. basic form in zb, animation ready topology in silo, back to zb for scuplting :slight_smile: : ) : ) does it get any better?

#57

Can you think of a better way? :slight_smile:

But we should wait and see if the Topology Brush really works as well as everyone thinks right now - You know, over the years there were too many disappointments… If it really works that way it would be a godsend. And Silo only costs a hundred bucks!

#58

haha wow!! Thanks for that pic SOK!! I tried to download the video but took longer than I could be on, but those 4 little pictures explained it all very well.

What a wayyyyyyy cooooool tool!

#59

I read the whole thread , really interesting one!! IMO ZBrush need s a tool like that of Silo discussed above, to create a better topology and polyflow. for characters, this is a very intuitive tool and Zbrush only misses some low poly modelling tool like this.

since the thread was also speaking of animation i would be very happy to see a further Zbrush evolution in animation, since Zspheres can be used to pose chars this means that maybe it’s possible to build some ikfeatures on them for mesh animation and deformation.

just make of them a tool to build a sort of skeleton with ik, control objects wich can drive zspheres position on 3d space and more,allowing them for example to link the joints rotation to mesh deformation

build better the derived Zsphere shape and refine it with a paint topology tool.

paint in all details u want refining your work.

animate the z sphere structure/rig u stored. voilà Zbrush in CA.

#60

I wouldn’t want this application to get distracted. I have a feeling that those ‘all in one toolsl’ are much less powerfull than a couple of specialised ones, not to mention an extreme resourse drain on your machine.

I would rather see ZB just continue developing what they have. I think it’s a great shop to detail your stuff.