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Z-Remesh destroys borders

Hey guys, I was watching the hard surface tutorial at ZBrush Masters: Hard Surface Modeling - Marco Plouffe - ZBrush 2020 - YouTube (frigging love it!) and I decided to learn this too.

I made a nice sculpt in dynamesh. I then selected a portion that I wanted to exctract by masking it. Then I used the “extract” function with a thickness of zero to extract it.

After extracting, I wanted to polish the borders a little bit like they do in the video, but my “mask by features (border)” function is not working, it simply does not do anything.

Then I decided to add a edge loop, which did soften the edges a little bit.

When I do a z-remesh after that, it gets all jacked up and I am unable to fix it.

Can someone please explain to me the proper way of doing this and -or maybe show a mini-tutorial to me? been trying for 3 days now without any progress :frowning:

I tried following the tutorial by Marco Plouffe in the link given above, but my result is always extremely bad :frowning:

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Hi @Ometecuthli

As with ZBrush, there is usually more than one way to do a lot of things, but this is what I would have done.

  1. After extract, clear any masks.
  2. To smooth out the edges, go to “Tool > Deformation > Polish By Features” and max the slider as many times as it takes.
  3. Go to “Tool > Geometry > Crease > Crease(Crease Border)” to keep the edge intact.
  4. Then use ZRemesher.

HTH, cheers!

As a sidenote: Here is a free handy bit of software for easily taking screen grabs. :wink:

Greenshot

1 Like

Hi @zber2 , thank you for your reply! I will give this a try tomorrow and see what the outcome is. And thanks for the tool, I will make good use of it! :slight_smile:

@zber2 unfortunately it is not really working. I tried various way to get a clean low poly but all result (eventually) in distorted edges and I am clueless on what to do to fix it.

afbeelding

Ill upload my model so you can give it a try, maybe it makes more sense then. I am sure it is me doing something wrong and -or not understanding the tools correctly lol.

Most of the time it works absolutely perfect, but in this case (with this specific shape) I just cannot get it working :frowning:

In this specific example. if I do get a “somewhat” workable low poly version, it gets all messed up when I try to add a panel loop for thickness. So either way, when working with this shape I cannot get it properly working one way or another.

Any other (a bit more simpler shapes) shape works fine.

File download: ZBrushProject.zpr | Files.fm.

Update: I have been trying all evening but unfortunately without any progression. Even simple shapes get messed up bad. See below picture. High poly to low poly and the edges get all messed up, no clue why.

I tried what u said, clean up the borders, add crease et cetera, but nothing works.

Knipsel.PNG

2

I think I know what you are trying to achieve but I don’t understand why you are going about it in that way. In the link to the tutorial you posted, you don’t give a time stamp to the section in the video where Marco is doing this and that video is almost 3 hours long, so, sorry, but I’m not going through the whole video to look for it. From what I can tell, it looks like your problem starts when you are trying to ZRemesh it to such a low poly count and then using Panel Loops. Why do you need the poly count to be that low? Like I said, I think I know what you are trying to achieve, but this is not the way that I would go about it. With the advent of the MeshProject brush, this would make for a lot easier and quicker workflow. Watch the video below to get an understanding of the MeshProject brush and see if this will meet your needs.

The video below might give you an alternate method also.

Thanks for the links, really helpfull! basically what the guy does in the “creating clean topology” link is what I tried as well, but as you can see in my screenshots it aint working.

I will give it another try tomorrow evening and ill let you know the outcome :slight_smile:

The reason I want to bring it back to low poly is because I want to do multiple things amongst which adding thickness and details with Z-modeler.

Thats why I need to be able to bring it back to low poly.

Sorry about me not putting in the correct times for the movie.

  1. Extract and clean the edges
    https://youtu.be/u75skb32GTo?t=7441

  2. Z-remesh to lower the poly count
    https://youtu.be/u75skb32GTo?t=7453

As you can see, it works perfectly when he does it. Yes, of course it needs some minor tweaks which is fine, but the borders do not collapse.

When I try this (tried with various shapes) they do collapse, and when I find a way to make them “not collapse”, it will return weird stuff when I add thickness (loops) to them.

Ill study the links you gave me and give it another shot, will post my result there.

For now thank you so much for your replies and ill get back to you asap

@Ometecuthli - I tried ZRemeshing your uploaded model and got the following result, which as far as I can tell, is more or less what you’re trying to achieve. I didn’t do anything special.

ZBrush ScreenGrab01

  1. Loaded tool from project (I didn’t want to import any non-standard settings you might have in your project).
  2. Activate Symmetry
  3. Extracted mesh - Thickness 0, remainder set at default (Double, TBorder, Smt 5)
  4. Deleted back face and a small island near the top.
  5. ZRemesh with default settings (5K, Adapt) + Keep Creases
  6. Repeat ZRemesher with additional Half target setting until the desired polygon count is achieved.

I’m running 2021.6.6 on PC.

hth

ZTool attached Extract0

1 Like

@tobor8man

That is strange, because for me it is totally not working! I really dont understand why.
Anyways, I changed my workflow a little bit (even though I preferred not to) and now I get it working 9 out of 10 times.

The only weird issue I have now (maybe I should reinstall Zbrush lol!) is that when I add a “panel loop” to add some thickness to it, for whatever reason it is adding two loops it seams even though I said only 1. See the attached screenshot. Maybe anyone has an idea why this is happening?

from this:
afbeelding

to this with 1 panel loop:

When I go to display and activate double, I see that my plane is double… i.e. all the polygons are somewhat overlapping. Its weird. Is that normal?

You also mentioned you deleted backfaces? what do you mean with that and -or how do you do it?

I will try reinstalling Zbrush, you never know, because if you can ZRemesh without any problems then I really wonder why it is not working for me when I do the exact same thing.

Thanks so much for your reply, really grateful for you guys help!

P.S. I am running 2021.6.6 as well on PC (Windows 10) and I just reinstalled ZBrush. I followed your steps exactly as you described but the result, once again is this:

afbeelding

I will try and find some recording software so I can record my screen. That is better then some screenshots :wink:

EDIT: (Again, sorry)
I am going bonkers! I reopened the project, did the EXACT same steps, and now it was working flawless… almost as if the z-remesh algoritm did a different calculation this time. I really, really am having a hard time understanding what and how at the moment lol.

Tried it like 20 times, 17 times in a row it failed, and the last 3 times went perfectly while doing the exact same steps with the exact same mesh.

@Ometecuthli

When extracting with Double activated, the extracted mesh has two sides, even if thickness is set to zero. Each side has a different polygroup so it’s easy to pick one and delete the other. You’ll see it has two sides because when you spin it around to the back it will still be visible even without the Display | Double setting.

I’m not sure about the panel loops problem. I would justZmodeler | Qmesh and add multiple edge loops.

Anyway, at least it seems to work for you now. I’d suggest saving your tool(s) and then opening in a new project so that there are no settings or other issues carried over with the project.

Good luck.

Hello @Ometecuthli ,

I see you’ve already gotten excellent tips from both @zber2 and @tobor8man. To add to what they have already said, and to apologize in case I go over ground that has already been covered, the geometry in your original file is problematic for ZRemesher.


From the screenshot, I assumed that your mesh was a single sided 2D surface. It is actually a closed volume, though flattened into a 2d form with no thickness. You can see this if you switch on Tool> Display> Double and Polyframe mode. There are actually two overlapping surfaces here, and the normals near the edge are twisted quite a bit. This is why you can’t get good definition on the edge.

Dynamesh outright wont work with a mesh that is overly thin or 2D. ZRemesher can work on 2D geometry, but tends not to like when two overlapping surfaces are smashed together, such as can sometimes happen with a tool like the Clip brush.

Furthermore, the edge of your volume is poorly defined, so ZRemesher is having trouble finding the form there. The edge of your shape is not defined by a continuous edge loop you can trace all the way around the shape, with a loop of extruded polygons in between the front and rear surfaces. In some areas the topology just sort of twists around underneath and creates a thin, ultrasharp, triangular edge shape.


For best results try to go one of two ways:


  1. Work on your surface as actual single sided 2D geometry.

If you use the ZModeler Alt key functionality to assign temporary polygroup to the polygons on top of your mesh, then Polygon > Extrude> with the “No sides” option enabled, you can extract the top section of your mesh as a single sided surface. Split or delete the unwanted geometry, and then use ZRemesher on the single sided surface. There are other ways to do this, but they will require masking, and masking the points on a squashed shape like that could be difficult.

It should now ZRemesh without issue. You can use the “Thickness” option with Dynamic Subdivision to preview the surface with a bit of virtual thickness until you are ready to convert the geometry to an actual closed volume.


  1. Work on your mesh as a well-defined 3d volume.

When you Extract a shape with thickness from a surface, as the Mesh Extract function would do by default, it should create a front and rear surface, separated by a nicely defined loop of polygons and creased edges. ZRemesher understands this very well, and it gives it the information to produce much better results, especially with ZRemesher options like “Keep Groups”.

Remember, if you try to ZRemesh a target mesh that is extremely low resolution, ZRemesher may pick up the polygon faceting and bake that into the resulting mesh. You’ll want the shape you are ZRemeshing to be subdivided sufficiently to produce smooth results. In order to keep the form accurate, you may wish to produce the target volume at higher resolution. Otherwise, when subdividing low poly geometry, it will require creasing to specify which edges stay crisp when smoothing.

Hope that helps a bit. Good luck! :slightly_smiling_face:

2 Likes

Thanks so much for your reply @Spyndel, really good information from which I can learn a lot! This weekend I will post my end result. It is obvious nothing compared to what you guys make, but for a first time its not to bad I recon lol.

Thanks again for your replay and thanks again to everyone else who replies! really helpful!