ZBrushCentral

Which software combination will work for me

ZBrush Usage Questions
#1

I just need a little guidance. My plans are to create concept art using Photoshop as my main tool. However I have purchased Zbrush (which I love) to assist in creating different characters and props.

I’ve also purchased Poser, which will allow me to develop my characters even further.

My question is. Am I missing another tool (software) that would be useful to develop this type of art work.

I have been led to believe that products like Maya, 3Ds Max, Cinema 4D etc are mainly used for game development.

There doesn’t seem to be any available advice on what combination of software to use depending on your workflow.

The other consideration here is cost. Therefore if I was advised that another package would assist, would Silo fill that gap?
I keep reading about a render machine (Vray), but again I am assuming that this is necessary for gaming design. I appreciate that Silo does not deal with rendering like Maya or 3Ds Max do, but there is a big difference in cost.

I believe I can continue to produce results with the tools I have, however I just need a second opinion, possibly from someone who has all ready found the solution. Any advice would be gratefully received.

#2

I recommend Silo for a secondary modeler. Check out Vue for landscapes and basic animation - Has built in functions to work with Poser Animations.

website

Next i would chose Messiah for an animation studio. I haven’t done yet. next Big purchase After Vue.

Mesiah website

now… as we go further down the rabbit hole… I would go with Ulead Video editing package (more low budget oriented - my route)

Ulead

Also for sound work If you are doing multiple tracks and mixes… I would choose something like Sony Acid.
website

and… once you get to a medium level of understanding of your tools… your going to ask yourself this question… how do i speed up my render times… Well you will have to setup your own render Farm. 4-10 PC’s networked should do this.

Checkout October edition of 3D world for how to setup your own Render Farm.

Issue # 121 year 2009

good read.
Ok, I thinks that all i can add. :o

#3

Thanks for getting back so promptly Grilost. Do you have any idea what the difference is between Silo Core and Silo Professional?

I appreciate the later allows all functionality, but will Silo Core suffice?

Thanks again for the really useful feedback. Much appreciated.

#4

Silo professional has better UV tools than the core edition if my memory serves. I’d also recommend you look at Modo for still work and traditional polygon modeling. Silo development seems to have stagnated, but it is a very hand tool and used by many of my students. (I recommend Silo to those on a budget.)

If you’re developing stuff for Poser, you should also look into UV Mapper Pro as it will help you do UV’ing and grouping of Zbrush sculptures in a Poser-firendly way (it was primarily developed for Poser enthusiasts.) Poser tends to be used more by 2D and still artists than animators. It is sometimes used in pre-visualization work.

For serious animation work, you’ll probably end up looking at things like Maya and Motionbuilder.

For games work, the industry standard is usually 3DS Max, but a lot of work often goes into optimizing for the specific games engine being used.

I work in motion-graphics a lot and C4D is quite popular, especially in Europe. Newtek’s Lightwave is more common in the US, but it’s seeming more dated these days.

Overall, you should aim to pick tools that are focused on the end-product you are looking to achieve. For example, Vue is not the best choice for character animation. Messiah Studio is not bad if you can’t do motion-builder, and can be coupled with several other general-purpose 3D packages, like C4D, Maya, and Max. (According to Messiah’s web-site, the majority of their users use Messiah to complement Maya.)

If you’re just starting out, and you already have Poser and Zbrush, I would suggest this:

Add:


  • UV Mapper Pro (to assist in Poser-type Rigging) ($60)
  • DAZ Studio Advanced with the Figure Setup Tools (pro bundle) to actually do the rigging (much easier and less frustrating than Poser’s own tools) about $200 if you join their Platinum Club, but frequently go on Sale.
  • Silo Pro or Modo (for general modeling tasks.) ($160 for Silo Pro about $1000 for Modo, but watch for sales.)
Do some of your own model development and rigging for Poser. Learn to do some basic walk cycles and the like in Poser and get a feel for the basics of keyframe animation. Once you’re feeling good about your basic skills, it may become time to invest in some the heavy duty stuff like Maya, C4D, 3DS Max.

If you wish to eschew the Poser route, then I’d go with something like Project Messiah (currently on Sale for $599) and maybe Silo for utility work. Add Maya or Max later (C4D is another good alternative.)

Despite its relatively low price, I don’t in general recommend Lightwave as I feel they are bit behind the curve, even if they do have a nice renderer. (I still have on seat of Lightwave here in the office, but it doesn’t get used that much.)

-K

#5

I believe Silo Pro also has a scene hierarchy. And some kind of Scene render system that Core dose not have. for the 50$ difference, I’d get the pro. as far As rigging Poser VS Daz, I’m not sure. I have both but have yet to do my own rigging. I too am still a novice. But I have a software pipeline purchase plan. I just obsessive that way. :o

on a side note, the latest October edition of 3D World Magazine has a full commercial copy of Daz studio. Worth the 15.99$ this month.

The wife is good to me, lets me buy this stuff with a bit of saving. She’s just happy its not Gambling or Alcohol. lol

#6

Thanks for the feedback

Kerwin: Thanks for the in depth advice, much appreciated. I all ready have UVMaper and have found a wonderful tutorial on how to use it in conjunction with Poser and Zbrush.

Gridlost: Thanks again for your feedback. Behind every successful man is an understanding woman.

I have been using Poser since Poser 6 and I’ve been teaching myself Zbrush for the past twelve months, so my experience is slowly growing.
I also tried Maya essential learning years ago, but gave up due to time and the huge learning curve.
Blender was another package I had a go at due to it being a free download.

I’ve always been a quick learner where software is concerned, however I have recently found that I’m struggling with understanding the differences between the 3D packages out there and how they can be used in unison to produce the finished product I am looking for.

So far I am lead to believe that most 3D packages are used to develop a model. ZBrush is used for detail (skin, wrinkles etc). I do understand that ZBrush can be used to produce a model, therefore why have so many packages in your drawer?

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I don’t want to spend my well earned money on something that won’t be of any use.

At the moment I am only interested in producing static artwork with a realistic 3D feel, rather than flat 2D, otherwise I would just use Photoshop.

I am essentially a Graphic Designer and haven’t really trained as a fine artist, therefore my anatomy skills are poor. That’s where Zbrush and Poser come in. Photoshop will allow me to refine and finish my work. Silo sounds like a good bet.

Is there any literature available that will explain all these different 3D packages and how they can be best used together?

Thanks again

#7

i think you are doing the right thing. poser, zbrush and photoshop.

that’s a great combo.

if you want more, you have to ask yourself “more of what”…

are trying to create more of that the others can’t do?

maya, 3dsmax and XSI have more to offer then still images.

modo http://www.luxology.com/ product design

all the above you have to add learning curve…

but the world is open to you and what you want to do…

try the demos

Steve

#8

Mark,

Here is what i suggest… you cant tell from the site now, but on Nov 10th Vue will release the artist editions of Vue. they have for every version of it. those packages are much cheaper. I currently own Vue 6 Esprit. I paid 250$ for it at the time. There should be a download for Pioneer, which is A free version of it. Pioneer is a stripped down version they give out in lue of a trial. I use Vue to Render all of my Scenes. I can use it to render animations as well. Vue speeds up my projects by allowing me to use a large catalog of models. I Also can Add to that Catalog as well as import from many File formats. It has an easy to follow interface and there are a few good books out on its use. Great tool and very powerful in its more graduated editions. I alone use Esprit. it is a pretty good package for the price i paid. I am next going to upgrade to release 8.0 and get either the Infinite or Complete version. depends what I can get the wife to agree too. :wink:

#9

I have an update on Vue.

I was wrong, there are now price lists for the artist editions of Vue. pricelists

I think product descriptions are forthcoming.

#10

@theMark…Forget all that stuff above. If you havn’t done any 3D modeling and rendering before and are looking to break into it then the way to go is BLENDER. It is much more powerful than Silo and does everything. The best part of all…It’s Open Source and is absolutely FREE. Don’t spend a cent until you have tried Blender. Just check out their website and see for yourself what it’s capable of.

#11

Thanks Gridlost. I remember having a go at Vue 5 and I loved it. But at the time I wasn’t sure if it was what I needed in my tool box. Plus I really couldn’t afford it.

I had a look at the price list. As if it wasn’t bad enough trying to search for the right software, now I’m bombarded with countless versions of one package. How on earth do you decide which version to purchase?

Mark

#12

well, as far as blender its great if you want to model every little thing, spend 4 months on a single scene. Not to mention fighting the UI of Blender. Its free, great. I love Blender, but as a new CG artist… I get discouraged with every project. I will go back and forth to Blender. I am fascinated with its Physics system as well as its hair and soft bodies system. I started with Blender, Then Moved onto Vue and Poser. It dose not matter where your models come from, Just that the scene meets your own expectations. Different tools for different tasks. Blender is not best for doing it all. lets not let Fanboidom rule our thoughts Zber2. By your thinking, why even use Zbrush? you can Sculpt organically in blender if you want. Or was your copy of Zbrush free? hmm.

Now on to Vue Packages… I recommend downloading Pioneer. Its free. test out some of the new features. Then i would purchase Esprit. If you decide you want more features (you will find this as you use it more) then you can either sidegrade up to the level you want or just purchase the individual modules separately.

I found that my needs require the whole package. so for me that is either Complete or Infinite.

#13

Sorry Gridlost, didn’t mean to hurt your feelings and bring up some bad memories with YOUR experience with Blender ;), nor was I attempting to disprove anything you mentioned. You did notice “@theMark”, did you not? . I was just trying to help the guy out because he seemed like he was on a limited budget and I just wanted to point him towards some good free software. Oh, and by the way, just because software is free doesn’t mean it’s pirated, FYI, I payed for my copy of Zbrush. Did you?

#14

Thanks yet again Gridlost. I’ll have a look at Pioneer after download.
I have a license for Poser, ZBrush and Photoshop. I have all ready produced a finished job with Poser, even though 75% of the work was carried out in Photoshop.

I have to admit, I get a lot of pleasure working in ZBrush and I can produce work very quickly. Blender is a different story, even though I think it’s a great bit of FREE kit, it doesn’t really inspire me. And as you probably know inspiration is half the battle.

I think what I’m picking up from this thread is: Try it and see. So I’ll just have to be patient and keep working with the tool box I all ready have, whilst fiddling with the other stuff.

#15

Zber,

I’m sorry. I have a few friends who pirate, makes me angry. I don’t mix my projects with theirs. rather my art be pure. Bad charma and all that. Ya, everything i use is an actual license. the money i spend… It just pains me when people pirate this stuff. The excuses they use… its still theft. anyhow… I should not have said anything. Blender is great… just too hard for most beginners to get into. Myself included.

Mark,

ya, you got that right. Take baby steps, don’t over buy. But try the free trials when you think your ready for an additional package. I have been working with Poser and Vue for a couple of years on and off. Fought with Blender for a year. Almost gave up on modeling until I found Zbrush, tried the demo and fell in love.

another software you may want to look into is Houdini. similar to Maya I think,
and it has a free learners edition. Leave a small water mark i think.

#16

Luxology’s modo has got it going on. :sunglasses: Awesome poly and subdivision surface modeler, fantastic renderer, easy interface, fair price, and the best business practices I’ve seen yet from a software company besides Pixologic (free updates… :smiley: ). It plays very nice with ZBrush.

My final output is also 2d art. I bring renders into Photoshop, composite and paint on top. modo is very much like a 3d Photoshop and is great for this workflow. That’s my vote for sure. :+1:

#17

Thanks for you input jamespthornton. Modo does look stunning, however the price is slightly out of my reach. I’d need to justify the cost to my family.
Compared to what I paid for ZBrush and Poser I would have to make certain I would use it.

I suppose I’ll just have to put some cash to one side. Thanks for your comments though. It’s nice to hear from a fellow 2D artist and what someone else uses in their work flow. I suppose that’s what I created this thread for.

I am currently working on a project in ZBrush, which I am planning to finish off in Photoshop. My next step is to learn how to bring render passes into Photoshop. Where did you learn to do that stuff?

Mark

#18

Hi Mark,

You can do your render in Zbrush then from the menu’s at the top, click on “Document” then click “Export” button to save the document as a .PSD image.

#19

You render different materials, some with the color on and some with the color off. ZBrush has a lot of metcaps designed for this purpose.

There are a lot of pieces on the top row that show their render passes. Here’s an example. http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?p=602935#post602935

I would spend some time finding lessons on it. Scott Spencer’s book on character creation has a lot of info in it. There’s also some tutorials out there, just don’t remember where. You’ll find the info if you dig. That’s how I learned it.

In modo, it requires less use of passes. When things are set up right just a straight up render is often photo real. Then the extra passes are just to add some zing. Painting on top of good renders and composites is too freakin’ fun though.

I find that 3d is a fantastic compliment to 2d art. It opens up many doors for creativity. Shame modo is out of reach. I feel your pain, as it was quite a purchase for the broke guy I was at the time. Now it helps me realize ideas much faster though, so it and ZBrush have really paid off.

I will also say that you need to either become a hard surface master in ZBrush, and not just by using the planar brushes, or learn some other hard surface modeler. Even getting one of the cheaper modelers such as Silo (which I hear great things about) will help you combine organic and hard surface shapes. The contrast of shapes will accentuate your sculpts.

It’s much easier than sculpting hard surface for MOST things. Using the lazy mouse feature makes sculpting some of them actually easier than modeling them. It’s all about finding the path of least resistance for each shape. ZBrush will not be that path for a lot of hard surface shapes.

Another benefit to an external modeler is the ability to create base meshes that are clean and ready to sculpt. Stick to making them w/ as many even quads as possible.

Good luck with your art!

#20

Really good advice jamespthornton, thanks.

Do you use any other products to assist you work flow? or is it mainly Modo and ZBrush?

I really feel like I will soon be in the dog house. I keep hovering over the buy now button on the Luxology/Modo web site.

I’ll just have to do some homework on Silo and Modo before I take the plunge.

Thanks again for your time jamespthornton, your advice is gratefully received. :+1: