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Voxels, Volumetric Sculpting

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#21

“Voxels” like in the title of this here - does it really mean the discussion of 3DCoat?
Because, with the announced and new ZSpheres, with the well working, actual version of DecimationMaster - there is (or will bee soon) enough in ZBrush to forget about 3DC?
Andrew from 3DC stated something like that 3DC was meant as a tool that might let you paint/texture/displace/retopo/UVmap your models in an easy and intuitive way, and from working with 3DC I have seen he’s absolutely right!

Voxels - as they are now - are a nice toy to play around with, but in the end you will have to deal with a mesh that - more often then not - will need further care.
We still will have to see how easy it is to get from the announced and new ZSpheres to a refined model - but: how often has ZBrush left you only half the way?

#22

Volumetric Voxel based modeling is exactly where Zbrush needed to sojourn.

Topology should be the last thing the Artist tackles when they create something.

How many times have you created a basemesh, and started sculpting on it in Zbrush- only to find out that some of that topology wasn’t planned out well enough to provide you with enough poly’s to get the shape or texture work you needed done on certain areas of that mesh. Now you find yourself reworking the topology all over again, just to get that extra shape or detail into that area where the original topology failed.

I come from the real world of sculpting in clays and waxes.

I want to see that “Make any shape as smooth and as detailed as you desire” realized in Zbrush without all those “Basemesh topology not good enough” issues. In the real world, clay forms are created through drastic add and take actions. Pre-planning with a basemesh never made a lick of sense to me. Sculpting it dirty, shaping things out until you get the shape you are after, and then refining it. That’s how it should be. Going in with a pre-shape is not the answer.

Let me sculpt whatever organic shape I want without the need to worry about the topology layout until I’m done sculpting it. If I want to snake hook pull me out a pair of 36 point antlers on my model, so be it. Seems like Voxels lets you do silly stuff like that with out punishing you for not having a topology flow to allow it to work.

I haven’t tried this 3d Coat yet, but the videos on YouTube make my jaw drop. I can think or several times where this no worry about starfish poly’s, bad poly flow, or under shaped basemesh issues could have been avoid using this Voxel based sculpting method- saving me hours and in some cases days of frustration. I agree if Pixologic doesn’t figure out a way to incorporate this in Zbrush- they will be surpassed. I love Zbrush, the interface and the work flow is godlike.

This Voxel stuff, it’s world changing. Sculpt first, topology later. I very much want it to become a part of Zbrush. (Fingers Crossed)

#23

theres a free demo, try it out

#24

“it’s world changing. Sculpt first, topology later.”
Ur talking about zbrush :smiley:

Seriously though sculpting in 3dcoat feels like waking up after a long
night drinking, running a marathon and then trying to paint a rembrandt.

#25

yeah it feels really hard for me too, its like somthing totatly new, i got just so used to sculpting using flat projection with the way zbrysh tools work, that i cant do even the simplest forms in real 3d, i lose the feel of deppth, and and up adding to much or not enough mass ;f

#26

Hi all
Interesting thread with LOADS of real valid points.

As I use both zbrush AND 3dcoat I feel like I am currently in retopo/ sculpting heaven, a sort of santa’s development race, and who is going to get these fantastic new clever technolgies… and real soon… me/ us the users. Its totally awesome all round!

Couple of bits from me.
Can’t really mention voxols without mentioning 3dcoat. Apart from the emerging tech its the sheer speed of progress that is so jaw dropping with 3dcoat. I would definitely place my vote firmly for zbrush voxols for the future.

I have relatively old 32bit xp pc and have yet to experience any slowdowns using voxols.

Have to agree that 3dcoat is a little work in progress ish, but the sheer speed of improvement is to me at least an indication that this won’t be the case for very long.

Personally I begin to suspect that a new workflow may evolve that involves either zsphere2/voxols and then retopo. Remains to be seen.

I can’t help thinking that ZB was always aimed at making the ease of creation 1st priority THEN sorting out the resulting mesh. And it does this very well, confirmed by the diverse and sheer number of users.
Voxols to me are just a further extension of this philosophy but with the possible usable mesh weights raised still further. I will be very interested to see just what zspheres2 brings to the arena, I have a feeling in my bones that the landscape may change very significantly again! I also suspect that zspheres2 may well push retopo as a part of a standard workflow even more. But if they bring with it integrated generation of sensible polys then man it will be like 5 christmases all at once :smiley:

I envisage my possible future workflow

Basic shaping speed roughing out to mid level …Zsphere2 and/or voxols
Retopo in 3Dcoat
uv create tweak/refine in headus? (still researching this… looks like nice app)
Displacement maps in zbrush?
Paint in either zbrush/3dcoat or c4d bodypaint (Goz)(man spoilt for choice)
Goz to C4d for rigging, cloth, dynamics and animation etc.

Be interested to see how well goz works for to and fro to C4d. IE for testing deformations once rigged, then tweaking mesh back in zbrush then back to rigging deformation testing in c4d. I guess then finalising uvs then painting

Man that this is even possible by a hobbiest in the comfort of my own home is just like some sort of dream come true.

PS Ozzcar sounds like I need to check out 3dcoat unwrap etc, not had time, I bought it solely for retopo tools but have been impressed by my initial sculpting with voxols, thanks for heads up on that one. Don’t agree on the interface, Personally I find the icon pics not very informative and the UI a little clunky, but then I am not a great fan of ZB UI either lol. the manual and free vid tuts are great tho.

“Seriously though sculpting in 3dcoat feels like waking up after a long
night drinking, running a marathon and then trying to paint a rembrandt.”
…Stop drinking so much it’s clouding your judgement! :stuck_out_tongue: Rembrandt never had enough time to run marathons, he was too busy programming on his zx spectrum.

“Let me sculpt whatever organic shape I want without the need to worry about the topology layout until I’m done sculpting it.”
Couldn’t agree more!!

“We still will have to see how easy it is to get from the announced and new ZSpheres to a refined model”
The wait is agonising lol

#27

There is a brand-new version of 3D-Coat out today, the 3.1 – which adds many new features and fixes various bugs. I’ve tried it for an hour now, and it’s slicker and faster. There’s also an all-new PDF manual, which is vastly better in both form and content than before. Get this stuff at www.3d-coat.com/download.html

Also, the very brilliant programmer tweets about his updates 5-6 times a day at www.twitter.com/AndrewShpagin. Whoever is interested in digital sculpting should check out the demo or 3D-Coat, it’s One To Watch – and certainly a hugely useful supplement to ZBrush, Silo, MOI, etc.

#28

I see a a very amazing workflow with 3DC and Zspheres2 together.

  • Using Zspheres2 to create a base mesh is probably the fastest way possible.
  • Exporting a medium poly OBJ from ZB 3.5
  • Then in 3DC converting the OBJ into voxels.
  • sculpt details and retopo there as well.

I also agree that waiting for ZB3.5 (because of GoZ and Zspheres2) is absolutely agonizing!

#29

Depite the OP’s initial intentions this thread has turned into more a discussion of 3D Coat than anything else. I am therefore merging it into the Commercial Apps Discussion thread, which as it happens already has a 3D Coat discussion going on.