ZBrushCentral

Transpose Symmetry

ZBrush Usage Questions
#1

hello again,

another question. how does this “Transpose Symmetry” mentioned in the online docs work? there is no “tutorial” or anything else.

#2

Just activate before entering the Transpose Tool, the Transform Simmetry?

Works for me, or do you mean something else?

#3

probably yes.

6 transpose symmetry

Transpose Symmetry allows the artist to get into and out of pose while retaining their high resolution details! Transpose Symmetry frees the artists to begin posing their sculptures earlier in their sculpting process. Using current workflows artists sculpt a base shape, pose the sculpt and then sculpt asymetrical details. Occassionally, an artist may want to sculpt with symmetry on while the sculpture is posed. However, in current workflows, you can not return to a base sculpt to further sculpt your model. The pose is, in this workflow, the end of the line for your sculpture.

Transpose Symmetry breaks down this barrier allowing you to pose your sculpt earlier in your workflow, get into and out of pose easily and transfer all your high rez sculpting from your base sculpt to your posed sculpt. In this new workflow, posing happens earlier in your workflow and does not have to be a one time deal at the end of the line for your model. In fact, you can go back and forth as many times as you need. Sculpt symmetrical details like fabric weave on your pants while in your base pose and then transfer that sculpting to your posed sculpt!

#4

im wondering about that too

#5

yeah, i don’t really get whats being talked about there either… seems like what’s being discussed is something beyond what i would think of as “transpose symmetry” (ie, simply using the transpose tools with x symmetry enabled…)

-matt

#6

This part of the wiki is not written correctly needs to be written better

layers is the better answer.

pose on one layer

sculpt on one layer

then transfer detail layer to pose layer

#7

Yeah some of the wiki tutorials are not very clear, there is alot of assumption. This is a great example of that.

#8

Definitely need better tutorial explanation at wiki.

Hoping Digital Tutors will get a few videos up for it soon.

#9

i dont know if this is the real answer but - if you transpose/pose a model - ie change it out of symm in a new layer - you can flick back to the symm version -sculpt in symm again and then turn the asymm layer back on and the changes will move with the pose. its really cool - that sounds like transpose symm to me .
try it its great

h

#10

at first glance it does indeed appear that is a solution, but it’s not…

if you:


  • load super average man
  • subdivide couple of times, create a layer then sculpt some spikes on the palm (using tweak brush and holding shift so spikes are perpendicular to the surface of the palm)
  • create another layer and rotate arm by 90 degrees… it works!
BUT


  • if you then hide ‘posing’ layer so you can again paint with symmetry
  • and then add some new spikes
  • unhide posing layer so arm is again rotated 90 degrees, you’ll see that new spikes are no longer perpendicular to the surface…

so, this method has some basic functionality and it might work in some cases (where poses are not extreme and deformations are small)… but it’s definitely not a solution…

i’ll keep looking…

#11

peekoot -youre right about the spikes on the palm changing angle after going back and forth between symm sculpting and posing !
those are pretty extreme details though -anything lying closer to the main surface does not shift to a degree that you would notice .- normally i would think you would have most of your extremme protruberances in place before posing.
detail.gif
but maybe there is something else called transpose symmetry …?
h

#12

yeah… that is true… you will have most of your low freq. details in place before posing… but somehow it’s not satisfactory and that kind of symmetry is not precise enough in my opinion… i wouldn’t like my detail to stretch and deform…

btw. with the same file did you try:


  • turning off pose
  • adding new details (not spikes… both of your images show same details)… pores, blobs etc.
  • going back to the pose?
for me even this didn’t produce satisfactory results and in some cases details would even change direction… they would be depressions instead of elevations… and in the worst case they would go through the skin completely…

so is there another way to do this? donno… but sure hope so…

anyone saw tangent symmetry in mudbox? that’s what i’m after!

#13

doesnt seem too bad…

#14

howdy fellas, this thread has grown a little bit and some nice answers. i tried it with different layers but it didnt work here.

and does that pic above mean u will lose some mesh information doing that?

maybe thats the reason why there is no tutorial or other informations mentioned in the wiki coz its not “finished” yet.

#15

i can’t see the image… it says only ‘detail1.gif’

however i reckon what it represents…

the thing is, i agree making symmetry in such a way usually looks decent… but it’s compromise and not a real solution… and that’s what i want to find- a real solution

someone mentioned in another thread that real solution exists or will exist in the package… i’d really like to get more concrete info about that…

#16

Here is what i’m doing :
i whitch on all the layers.
go to the subdiv level i want
do some transpose
switch back to the highest subdiv level.
and tadaaa… all the transforms, rotations scaling are applied to the sculpted details.
It works only with regular subdiv, not HD

I dosen’t seems to work when i switch off the pose layer, then modify in symetry the base model and switch on the pose layer again.
i will have to look more in depth how the transpose and layers works

#17

lol, that’s the whole idea :wink:

I also get good results when I use a layer at level 1 to pose my character, but then I can no longer add a layer for the details on the highest SDiv level.

I really don’t get how this is supposed to work as advertised. I mean, it seems you have to choose wether you want to use layers to pose a character, or if you want to use them to use them to blend your detail sculpt. You can’t seem to have it both ways.

And it’s not only this feature, actualy a lot of new features and some old ones are broken somehow it seems to me.

#18

I dosen’t seems to work when i switch off the pose layer, then modify in symetry the base model and switch on the pose layer again.
i will have to look more in depth how the transpose and layers works
your previous workflow works but it’s not applyable to working on posed model sa if it were symmetric…

what i (and probably others) want to do is following:


  • create symmetric low poly mesh via zspheres or in external 3d app
  • paint some basic form
  • pose
  • then continue sculpting by only scultping one side and the other gets correct mirrored/posed deformations

that’s pretty nice way to work if you ask me :slight_smile:

[edit]

toonafish, you beat me to it… :slight_smile:

#19

[Deleted as not the best method!, See below.]

#20

another thing I noticed is most of the time when I add a layer to the lowest SDiv level, pose the character, set the layers intensity to 0 add detail in symmetry on the highest SDiv level, and then come back to the lowest SDiv level to enable the layer again my mesh explodes.

Just now it happened again, what I did was the following:

-load “SuperAverageMan_Low”
-add a layer on SDiv level 1
-Pose the character
-Divide a few times up to level 6
-go back to SDiv level 1 to set the layers intensity to 0
-up the level back to 6 to sculpt some detail
-go back to SDiv level 1
-set the intensity of the layer back to 1

kaboom, mesh exploded.