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Thread Regarding Maxon Transition

Thanks for the Update, Aurick,
but being bluntly honest, the FAQ didn’t answer anything new at all… hoping for more actual info soon… but this wasn’t it lol… i mean, we already knew free updates were going extinct… we already knew Perpetual licenses would still be “Sold”
of course we’re all worried in a years time only Subscriptions will be sold, we’d have loved to know the upgrade price… but reading that some of the stuff listed will continue “For the Immediate Future” isn’t very reassuring honestly.

Christ i wish none of this had ever happened, id have rather Re-Bought Zbrush every YEAR from Pixologic, than to have it in Maxons hands… we’ve all been waiting so long for more info and this is all we can get? it just feels so hopeless and disappointing. none of us are buying the “MAXON LOVES THE USERS!, AND WANTS TO PROVIDE THE BEST, MOST AFFORDABLE PRODUCTS” either, $3500 for C4D is absolutely Insane, and i just hope Zbrush’s price isn’t increased to boot.

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So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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I have to agree with everything in @Gremlin’s last post.
Without wishing to sound bitter and cynical, there was clearly enough communication with Maxon that EULA’s, license transfer details, Pixologic ID changing to ZBrush ID etc could all be changed on Pixologic and Maxons sites on the 29th, almost two weeks ago, and that was done without any announcment here to users. The longer it keeps getting said that you’ve not been able to communicate with Maxon, and that there are very important details that you can’t announce to existing users, the less people are going to believe that to be true, and that instead you’re just trying to hold off the backlash from hundreds of thousands of users.

As many others have said I hope Maxon don’t price us hobbiest users out of updates, and saying that there is ZBrush Core for hobbiests to licence owners of ZBrush full would be a stab in the back, so I hope that does not get suggested.
Another concern I have, and I expect many others will, is that even Cinema 4D perpetual users don’t get every update, only subscribers. So there are Subscriber only update releass like Cinema 4D S24, but full perpetual releases like Cinema 4D R23 and R25. So could a simmilar thing happen with ZBrush, where yes, there might be a perpetual ZBrush 2023 (and who knows the cost from that useless “Comprehensive FAQ”) we can pay to upgrade to, but might only subscribers get the 2023.X updates through the year?

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Well that happened really fast. Ending free feature upgrades before the acquisition had been finalised, and already Maxon have apparently finalised upgrade costs.

Can PIxologic/Maxon confirm if this reseller’s price list with the €579 upgrade price is legit, and also can you confirm why these were effective from 1st January? So resellers have known for nearly two weeks what the pricing would be but you’ve been telling us that you have no idea and can’t say anything? And why is the upgrade price 2/3 of the purchase price of a new licence? Is it so that you can soft push people onto the subscription plan like Maxon does with C4D?

You probably need to think hard about the price of these upgrades when you consider your hobbyist market and that the most significant update has come in the form of dynamics - which aren’t, let’s be fair, actual cloth physics like you get in Maya, Houdini or Marvellous Designer. I watch you struggle to market the bevel tool as significant - a bevel tool - and although the knife was loved, it was way past due. Considering most people have already been using far superior, actual physics based solutions for dynamics for years, why on earth do you think that the recent history demands a nearly €600 upgrade cost?

And I can’t be the only one seeing this statement as vaguely threatening about compatibility going forward:

To provide the best customer experience and performance, we truly believe all customers should be running the latest version. Cutting-edge technology and performance require agile development and delivery. All Maxon products, including ZBrush are fully dependent upon third-party hardware, operating systems and software solutions. In order to maintain compatibility with the latest hardware, drivers and host application updates, our development teams are constantly updating, optimizing and ensuring stability.

That says to me that you’re about ready to grandfather older versions immediately, even if you do provide critical fixes - there’s a point where you simply won’t provide critical fixes because anything but the latest version would be put in the too hard (don’t want to) basket. Oh we’re sorry, ZBrush 2022 is unstable with the latest Ryzen - you’ll just have to upgrade.

Guys, we make our living from ZBrush. I thought you appreciated how many freelancers and self employed people make up ZBrush users, but this whole thing has been cloaked in confusion and omission so far. Up until today I’ve been defending this, but it looks like Maxon are going to move people into subscription models fast, and they’re likely to do it by hurting compatibility and then telling us it’s not their problem that older versions don’t work, and oh, hey, why don’t you subscribe at half the price, huh?

As far as I’m concerned we have a fully functional sculpting program here - I have no reason to upgrade when everyone’s been so disingenuous and every other reason to start exploring alternatives. People have been doing wonderful things with 3DCoat lately, I have enough experience with ZBrush to demonstrate to others I can work with it fine, so right now it’s really about Maxon/Pixologic giving us reasons to stay rather than assuming we’re all trapped in ZBrush.

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@ckhunter That’s a great, albeit prohibitivly expensive find, but listing/upgrading from ZBrush to ZBrush 2022 doesn’t totally make a lot of sense, as there isn’t anything yet for that to be an upgrade from and to, but it is very concerning and far too expensive going forward, if that is the perpetual pricing. Thank you for sharing it though!

It looks as though logo’s have started changing on Pixologic pages now too.

Now it’s ZBrush BY MAXON. Same for ZBrush BY MAXON Store

So the talk of “we’ve only just started communicating, things are still being worked out.” Oh, but we can change all our websites and logo’s, we’ve communicated enough for that.

Disingenuous really does seem to describe this far too well.

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Well… finally the truth is out : forget about perpetual Licence !
A total disregard of the ZBrush community by Maxon is going to kill on the long run this wonderful software. Many are already doing the switch to Blender… I suggest you all download your copy of ZBrush 2022.0.2 and make backup copies for the future as we are never again goin to get any upgrade for free. I’m very disappointed with pixologic selling out and I can forsee how the community will decline and so the software we all love so dearly. Maxon will kill it just as Adobe has done with Flash after first ruining it completely. It’s just in the nature of these big companies: chew up any small companies producing great software considered dangerous and too competitive for their own product. Buy it and in few months or even few years make it go missing. Bad move Pixologic, and again : Liar Liar Pants on Fire!

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That is Mediamachine’s price list. It is not Maxon’s price list. Mediamachine probably misunderstood something.

ZBrush 2022.0.x is a free upgrade for anyone who ever purchased a ZBrush perpetual license. Whether you upgraded to it before Maxon acquired ZBrush or not is irrelevant - you are entitled to that upgrade. Just like people who purchased ZBrush in the past year are still eligible for upgrades for one year from date of purchase as guaranteed when the purchase was made.

Moving up from ZBrushCore to ZBrush is not a version upgrade. It is going from one software to another software.

NOBODY (including me) knows how much it will cost to upgrade a perpetual license beyond ZBrush 2022.0.x.

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You are right. This upgrade price was not announced by Maxon. But there’s also no guarantee it won’t be at this price. These questions will persist until Maxon discloses the cost of the upgrade and explicitly declares that it will not remove the perpetual license. Looking back on their past, there is no reason not to be suspicious. Maxon might say this a year later. ‘For better service and compatibility, we have decided to stop selling perpetual licenses and only offer monthly subscriptions!’ I just wish it was a joke. :sleepy:

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@AURICK but that’s such a weird price. Can you think of any other product in ZBrush’s pre-Maxon offerings that costs €579? There isn’t anything. This is a new price for a ZBrush product, a new category (the upgrade to this version), and mediamachine are a new vendor, seeing as before they didn’t sell ZBrush - there’s only one place they’re getting their pricing, and that’s their Maxon contacts. And I know it currently says upgrade to ZBrush 2022, but there’s every chance that this is the right category and product code they’ll be using for “Upgrade to ZBrush 2023”.

And I appreciate that you might not have access to pricing structures, but otherwise the €579 price is weird to see. It’s hard to see what they might have misunderstood - except that they’re a new vendor and not used to the ZBrush current version structure and pricing structure, and they’ve just taken the part in the reseller information that says “Upgrade to [latest version]” and put the latest version in there.

I’m not prepared to give Maxon the benefit of the doubt like I was Pixologic. Sorry, but my trust was placed with Pixologic, and all these changes happened rapidly with next to no communication. Everything is wrapped in the nebulous phrase “the immediate future”. My customer loyalty was to Pixologic, and you’re now clearly Maxon - it even says in your user title now. So considering this is exactly Maxon’s MO, and that’s pretty much exactly how Maxon structure their other products, and also this is exactly what they did to Redshift, only much more rapidly, what other information can you provide to say that this isn’t the case except denying it and saying Mediamachine didn’t understand something?

And also, it’s not like almost every person in this industry hasn’t been through the acquisition process with their daily driver software before - like when Maxon bought Redshift, or when Adobe bought Allegorithmic. We know how these acquisitions work, a lot of us have had or currently have relationships with these companies. Nothing about this points to Maxon behaving any differently from Maxon.

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Well, all i can say is lets TRY and wait a little longer and see what the official word is before we get our pitchforks out. we owe them at least that. but if that IS the yearly upgrade price, that’s some ABSOLUTE BS. especially if its just from year to year. that’s above and beyond the upgrade price even for Cinema 4D from year to year! Vs how much the License costs to buy

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If the prices of almost 600 are correct, it will be many years before an upgrade.

Would easily support the old pixologic team, but a maxon? not a chance unfortunately.

know that this is a very bad comparison but it almost feels like you are buying a new car and next year they have fixed some new mirrors in the car or similar. I already have the car and I do not intend to pay two thirds of the full price of the car for a pair of new mirrors … really bad comparison, but what is a reasonable sum? I do not know. Yeah i know, that comparison kind of sucked.

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I demand a redo of your comparison :rofl:

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If the prices of almost 600 are correct, it will be many years before an upgrade.

Maxon has you covered there. They jack the price way up if you fall off their yearly upgrade fee. When I last spoke to Maxon about upgrading my R21 license, the ask from the US operation was higher than I originally paid for my perpetual license. It pretty much forces you onto subscription if you let your old perpetual license lapse.

I pretty much read the FAQ as leaning towards “You need to subscribe.” This was the clincher for me:

To provide the best customer experience and performance, we truly believe all customers should be running the latest version. Cutting-edge technology and performance require agile development and delivery. All Maxon products, including ZBrush are fully dependent upon third-party hardware, operating systems and software solutions. In order to maintain compatibility with the latest hardware, drivers and host application updates, our development teams are constantly updating, optimizing and ensuring stability.

And we all know how you stay on the “latest version” at Maxon–subscribe. I know they haven’t released the real maintenance costs yet, but I anticipate a couple years of a “ZSA” (Zbrush Service Agreement) to keep you current and then they’ll drop it and the price will way up.

Since Maxon has done it once and is pretty unrepentant, I don’t see why they wouldn’t go the same subscription plan with the ZB base. If they had a better answer, they would have said so already. If you’re in for the long haul, I’d plan subscription into your future budget a la Adobe.

I don’t blame the Pixologic team–this isn’t coming from LA, it’s what’s coming from Maxon HQ.

Sorry to sound so jaded, but I’ve seen this movie a few times now. :confused:

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This pricing for “ZBrush 2022 - Upgrade from ZBrush” is starting to propagate across resellers:

Motion Media $659 - and this is the ZBrushCore upgrade, for the avoidance of doubt.

Novedge - Upgrade to ZBrush 2022 - Upgrade your ZBrush to the latest version of ZBrush. Serial Number is required. $659

Digistor Australia - Pixologic ZBrush 2022 Upgrade from ZBrush AUD$830.00

@aurick Sorry to ping you, but at what point are Maxon going to admit that this is the planned upgrade price? Because if you didn’t know any of this it looks like Maxon are moving on everything without telling the former Pixologic staff what they’re doing. This isn’t just Mediamachine making a mistake now, this is four different resellers with the same product category and the same kind of pricing for an upgrade.

You know what makes this so much worse than Adobe with Substance, or Autodesk, or even Maxon and Redshift? The speed it’s been done and duplicitousness of all the statements from Pixologic beforehand. Acting like it’ll be business as usual and nothing will change for the “immediate future”. Except it changed immediately. I don’t think Pixologic can legitimately claim ignorance on this. Hell, you even had a sale over Christmas - that means that people could have bought ZBrush expecting not to have to pay out again, and bang - they immediately get hit with another upgrade cost a year from now. Even worse, if they bought after 29 December but before this announcement then they get no upgrades - and I’m fairly sure that kind of behaviour is illegal in most countries.

This was clearly planned to happen immediately. Those plans were obfuscated and Maxon used the goodwill that Pixologic built up to hide what they were doing. Whether or not Pixologic knew - and I’m sure they did, despite public statements - going forward you’ve probably destroyed that goodwill in one week. It’s a good job we have perpetual licences still because we’re definitely not doing business with Maxon in the future.

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This is so wrong from Pixologic management.

They have been misleading their users for a month.
And now they act like they don’t know anything.

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A ~couple~ ~few~ many more

https://www.cinema4dstore.nl/index.php?route=product/category&path=134

This is an interesting one listing at 2021 Upgrde??

I’m sorry, I can’t understand this one so it may not be relevant
https://www.syssoft.ru/Pixologic/Zbrush/828028/

This is posibly the most damning as it is listing Maxon ZBrush 2022 and has drop downs for upgrading from old version

ZBrush 2022 - Upgrade from Zbrush

https://www.motionmedia.com/search-results/?q=zbrush
" ZBrush 2022 - Upgrade from ZBrush
$659.00
Availability: In Stock" !!!
So they have in stock something that doesn’t exist??? That’s a very neat trick!!!

This is not just one company misunderstanding. For this many seperate companies in different countries all to lsit the same thing at simmilar pricing, they must have been provided with a list from somewhere? Would someone please explain???

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:joy:

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This is why Joseph Drust left Pixologic

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I can only urge Maxon/ Pixologic to keep the perpetual license ( And free upgrades ) in place. While I could live with a not too expensive upgrade fee, I will not use software with a monthly or yearly license. As artist and craftsman I take pride in the ownership of my tools, no matter wether it a set of chisels or a piece of software . After more than 20 years I dropped Photoshop for that reason, even though it used to be one my most important tools. Pixologic used to be a wonderful company regarding their products , pricing policy and community and I dearly hope it will stay that course.

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I’ve been told by Matthew:
"Because Maxon is a publicly traded company, free upgrades are no longer possible as they are seen as anti-competition and can result in huge fines. This means that we will have to charge for upgrades that introduce new features.

That doesn’t automatically mean that those upgrades must be expensive. Nobody knows as of yet how often perpetual license upgrades will be available or how much they will cost. That may not be known for months yet. Please give us time to work our way through this transition before assuming the worst."

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