Zbrush just crushed on me for no reason deleting a low poly subtool. Hello Maxon 
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What I’m wondering about is, if down the road, I have to reinstall and/or reactivate, will I still be able to do that? Right now, we are using the Pixologic license activation server, but what happens if and when it switches to a Maxon license server. Do they still, legally have to allow me to use the software or can Maxon say “That was Pixologic policy but now it belongs to Maxon and we don’t legally have to and you have to buy it again”. Does anybody, definitively, know the legality of a situation like this?
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Not cool dude… don’t wish that on anyone ;_; lol j/k, i use Blender for a few different things. just NOT Sculpting. that’s uh… that’s a bridge too far.
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@zber2 Autodesk bought Softimage from Avid, and changed the licensing to their own, which meant that after 3 years they would “retire” older versions of the software, and not allow them to be reactivated. Below is an email response when I asked to re-activate it after a drive failed in 2012.
" Automatic reply: Need to re-activate XSI Foundation 6.02
Software Retirement Notice
In order to maintain a high level of support for our Autodesk® Softimage® software customers moving forward, please be advised that historical versions of Softimage products (versions prior to Autodesk Softimage 7.5) will be retired effective August 1, 2011. If you intend to move a historical version of Softimage from one workstation to another, please do so prior to the retirement date to make sure that you will be able to re-activate your license."
Hardware failures, upgrades of machines etc. and your license is gone, and they wouldn’t reactivate it.
Is this legal? Presumably it is, sadly. Is it right, moral or fair? I don’t believe so, no.
And this is my concern of what will happen if people don’t keep up with potentially expensive upgrades or subscriptions.
I hope this isn’t what happens, but I’ve been bitten by it in the past, so I’m certainly apprehensive now too.
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I agree, 3DCoat for sculpting is totally not at the standard of ZBrush - but I’m also wondering if there’s a bit of modification of workflow to get it to work the same way. Like we’ve had this way of working with ZBrush for years, and that’s why we’re so fast, but the fun question is how to we analyse our own workflow and start to create equivalencies in other tools. I’ve started with some of that, as time allows, and with some help, but this weekend has been a question of how do we want to proceed if we can see the future of ZBrush marked by Maxon’s very first action: without any information or knowledge about future plans or updates, they immediately change the licensing terms and start rolling out upgrade costs that reflect what they think we’ll pay for it rather than what they’re adding that justifies that.
3DCoat is certainly not slow, at least not on my hardware, and it’s not wanting for brushes - and I hadn’t paid much attention to it because I use Houdini and it has vellum for cloth, and that’s a real simulation. But apparently cloth dynamics have been in 3DCoat for about five years. They are, in fact, far more stable and accurate compared to Zbrush dynamics I guess simply because like Houdini it can use the GPU for far more accurate floating point calculations. And it can certainly beat ZBrush in terms of polycount - there’s no memory or cache based limits.
Thing is, in our team here we have no reason to upgrade ZBrush but every reason to start exploring alternatives - Maxon’s recent history with Forger (Forger Classic abandoned, the exact same program released as Forger Subscription) concerns me.
If we plan to use 3DCoat for retopo and UV instead of Houdini anyway, then we already made it part of the pipeline, so starting out sculpts there and passing them to ZBrush to take advantage of the detailing brushes we know before we retopo in 3DC isn’t a huge pain. We’re not jumping away from ZBrush just yet, but with the range of specialist tools available to us outside ZBrush we don’t see why we should be trying to make ZBrush that one program that we use. It’s really good at sculpting, but average at a lot of the other things Pixologic have tried to make it do. If it were still Pixologic or the update costs were more reasonable, or if it had taken them longer to make these licensing changes, I might feel differently about it - but as of now, if we’re not getting feature updates and the features they currently have are better done in Houdini, 3DCoat, Substance or Mari, which we have to have anyway, then ZBrush can just be the sculpting solution we originally got it for.
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I’m sorry it took some time for me to get an answer here, but I can now address what people have seen for perpetual licenses on some reseller sites.
The price list that they drew from was in error and there should NOT have been an “Upgrade to ZBrush 2022” product.
- All registered ZBrush users are eligible for a free upgrade to ZBrush 2022.
- All purchases within the last year (but before 29 Dec 2021) are eligible for free upgrades beyond version 2022.0.x until their anniversary date is reached. The guarantee of free upgrades for one year from date of purchase remains.
- All purchases from 29 Dec 2021 forward are only eligible for critical bug fixes.
There is no information at this time regarding how often feature upgrades will be available for perpetual licenses or what the cost will be. That information will most likely not be decided until the first upgrade rolls around.
Thanks!
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Awesome, i was seriously hoping $660 wasn’t the upgrade price for ONE update. that would be insane. i mean, C4D only costs $3500 and the Updates cost $900 if im correct, so if they charged $660 for a Zbrush update, it would only be $235 away from the price of a Perpetual License (Without it being on Sale)
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Well sadly … 3DCoat, Blender and the Affinity box of photo apps keep turning into alternatives for free updates . I don’t do subscription. I believe in economics and would totally pay for an upgrade… subscriptions are for magazines.
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Well, Devils Advocate here, but a constantly updated program is very likely to be turned into a “Subscription” based model, due to needing to be updated constantly to remain relevant. but im with you on how you rather pay for updates over Subbing to it month to month. but if Zbrush ever DOES go Sub only, ill still pay for it, cause it’s the best option currently available, so long as it isn’t any INSANE Amount like C4D’s Monthly sub price is. that’s just too far. C4D doesn’t do anything (for ME) that i can’t do with Blender, so it’d be silly for me to pay that kinda money for something i don’t need. ZBRUSH however, that’s a far different story.
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Has anything been annouced about the subject of tonight (based on my local time) livestream? “Join Us” suggests something might be said/announced, at least about the Maxon takeover and the future, even if there’s no news about updates or pricing. Or is that just me reading too much into nothing?
edit…
ZBrush Core from the Wacom 3D bundle has dissappeared from the My Licenses page for me now. I’ve sent a ticket to support, and I’m sure it will be resolved shortly, but it’s still a little bit concerning for now. Hopefully we might learn more whats going on in a few hours.
edit #2…
and it’s back. no reply as yet from support, but I guess things are being migrated behind the scenes over to Maxon. Maybe. Just my guess though, so don’t hold me to it.
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trying not to think of Maxon - Maxoff jokes
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I just thought I’d jot a few thoughts here to share.
Any day that I use ZBrush is a good day! I started using ZBrush in 2010, when it came onto the MAC platform and I continually have had my mind boggled by all its working features. For me, it’s all about the MESH (often Heavy Mesh)!
I just want to mention one feature (among probably scores) that continually delivers for me. When I go to hit Dynamic Subdivision, and get the error message that I need to “fix the mesh,” I simple hit the “Fix Mesh” button and all, in a matter of seconds, is fixed. Remarkable! This software just works! And twelve years later I am still in awe.
Pixologic on YouTube has more experts providing more hours of helpful and inspiring content each month than there are hours in the month, and I do watch a lot of it. Always appreciative. I am perpetually learning all that I can and loving the abilities I have been using inside ZBrush, which I find is – probably the most, innovative and rewarding product I have ever had the opportunity to learn and use.
As an independent freelancer, for me, I have never had a problem paying for software that I use on a regular basis, like Adobe CC: Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects. Not cheap, but not crazy either.
C4D – although I used to work with it when I was working full-time and was provided with it at my desk, was my go-to for 3D work. But the pricing outside of that job, for me as a freelancer, has been price prohibitive – as much as I admire it.
I only pray that I will be able to afford to remain a part of the ZBrush community. Here’s hoping!
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Gotta agree with you there. Zbrush will always mean the world to me, even if it were to actually die one day, i would still look back and remember how it literally got me INTO the 3D World, and away from using Super Sculpey or Monster Clay… how it literally has changed my entire life. for the better. 3D Printing, doing things 10 years before i would have laughed and said “Thats Science Fiction, i doubt we’ll be able to do that anytime within the next 30 years or more”
that’s why, even though i am still dreading Maxon buying Zbrush, im trying my best to HOPE for the best, cause the software, and people behind it… the community, it all means so much to me. its not a question of “oh well ill just go get 3D Coat” no other program could HOPE to fill the hole Zbrush has filled right now. and even if i didn’t buy another update for 10 years, the program i have TODAY is worth more than its weight in Gold to me. if Zbrush went Sub only, i would be very sad, but if it was $40 a month like it currently is? id probably pay it. because its (WORTH) it. maybe someday another program will surpass it, but i don’t live in Maybe-Land, i live in “Today” and TODAY Zbrush is still the best tool for the job. even without another update. but i fully hope and plan to buy any updates in the future, as long as they’re SANE and/or worth the price.
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Will there still be free upgrades for ZBrush perpetual license holders?
Moving forward, perpetual licenses will only receive bug fixes, but not additional features or functionality for free. Subscribers will receive all feature updates and other fixes as long as their subscription is active.
To provide the best customer experience and performance, we truly believe all customers should be running the latest version. Cutting-edge technology and performance require agile development and delivery. All Maxon products, including ZBrush are fully dependent upon third-party hardware, operating systems and software solutions. In order to maintain compatibility with the latest hardware, drivers and host application updates, our development teams are constantly updating, optimizing and ensuring stability.
I bought ZBrush over 10 years ago, that means that I have to pay for the updates from (2022) now on?
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Yeah, you got one free “Update” this year, then any other “Updates” will be paid. they don’t currently know how much any updates will cost, they could be tiny, they could be hundreds of dollars. nobody knows. but they just gave out a free “Patch” that isn’t counted as an Update. so that tells me “Updates” will be Substantial, BIG Updates, and “Patches” Will be Free, little add-ons and bug fixes for free. just my two cents though
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There is a middleground between perpetual licenses and subscriptions that just end access to apps with Your last payment. IntelliJ Idea, on of the most popular IDE’s out there, has a rent-to-own model: You start a subscription for a year. After that, You are free to keep the version You started with indefinitely. The company is confident enough that their updates will be worth it and a large enough batch of customers will keep their subscription. Folks who don’t need the bleeding edge at any time pay effectively once, and are free to use a fully functional, but not the latest, version until they need or want to upgrade again.
I’d love to see more companies adopt this model. It has obvious benefits for all: companies still generate a steady income of revenues, while customers have more choice how and when to upgrade. Also, most importantly, peace of mind: if anything happens and You can’t afford a subscription temporarily, You still have a fully functioning software. It effectively eliminates this end-of-access anxiety that probably many have and which is possibly the reason why the subscription-only model is so, well, hated.
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Zbrush works great on Wine and wine can run some really really old windows software. Just saying…
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Yeah it’s definitely not for sculpting, but it looks like it’s all we gonna have left
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What is Wine, exactly? ive never heard of it. (I mean, of course i know of the Drink, very well lol)
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It’s a windows emulation layer for Linux.
Linux still supports the old Wacom tablets that Wacom has dropped support for in their drivers. And Wine can run all sorts of windows software. Valve Software ( the game studio ) has poured a lot of work into Wine for supporting windows games on Linux, and now it’s even better at running other windows software.
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