ZBrushCentral

The Future of Topology?

Hello, Ive been using Zbrush for almost half a year now, and have had great sucess using spheres. I have Maya as well.

My question comes from frustration. Ive spent 3 days trying to retopologize a female figure, with less than stellar results.

My Question is, am I wasting my time? Does anyone actually model characters using zspheres+retopology? Should i be modelling a body from a cube in maya? I dont care how difficult it is to learn, id like to know the future of modelling. Meaning, what should i study, should i continue down my current path? Or should i start learning organic modelling within another 3d package (i.e maya). I find this threashhold not an easy one to cross.

-mikeporetti

Perosnally, I tried Zspheres but they don’t like me. I watched some tutorials and even in them they just seem really fiddly and long winded just to get a simple box character which is something I can achieve using another package in minutes with better topology.

It’s a shame really because I love the way you can block out a shape on zshperes, it’s just shame when you skin them they go wrong.

Pete B

I used to be intimidated by the retoplogising functions as well, but finally bit the bullet and learned how to use them, and found its quite a bit easier than I thought.

Should you know how to box model a figure from a cube? Yes, you should be comfortable in a traditional modeler in any event…ZB does not replace the need for traditional modelers, nor will it any time soon. And while great for drawing out edgeflow on a continous surface body, using the retopo functions to “skin” overlaying components on a figure, these mesh additions are really only usuable in ZB, as they come out with asymetrical imperfections if they cross the center line, as well as ZBs general lack of mechanical precision when modeling. Youre still going to want to work in an outside modeler for more precise structures…or at least touch up zb’s meshes. Zb works best hand in hand with the traditional modeler of your choice. Then you’re just really happy with what it does, and dont get hung up expecting it to replace something like that.

That said, I can get perfectly acceptable topology “box modeling” a figure from scratch in a shorter time in modeler X, with rudimentary form, but then I can spend an entire day obsessively “rewiring” it to get that “perfect” wireframe. Getting really “advanced”, super intuitive edgeflow (for people that are obsessive like that) is a lot easier when youre drawing the lines on top of a form thats already sculpted the way you want. It’s really made me a believer in the “sculpt, then model” workflow. I’m lukewarm on zspheres…Ive just been using Z to retopo the base mesh Ive made in other programs, then done preliminary sculpting on in ZB.

Where the Retopo function really become useful, is working in a game type low poly workflow, when you want to construct a low poly, unibody mesh to hold the normal map generated by all those multiple complex mesh components on the high res model.

Of course, its early version functionality, and has a lot of quirks that come with it. Here are some tips Ive picked up:

  1. Make sure your mesh is a decent size in world space before starting your retopo, or you will have trouble zooming in as close as you want. Use the “size” slider in the deformation tab to enlarge the mesh in terms of zb worldspace.

  2. Getting started is easier than the directions make it sound. You probably know all this, but I repeat it here for prosperity (and the search engine). Just draw a Zsphere, enter “edit” mode, select the mesh you want to retopo in the rigging menu, then toggle on “edit topology” in the topology menu, and now youre drawing lines.Be sure to hit “X” for symmetry.

  3. I like to set the model’s material to that bright white matcap material. The yellow lines against the red wax dont make for the best contrast.

4)Set the “Max strip size” in the topology menu to 4. The reason for this, is it’s easy to miss your targets when drawing points sometime, ending up with some messed up geometry that will cause issues with normals or not display properly. Setting it to 4 will make these sections show up much more easily as missing sections when you hit “A” to previrew the mesh (assuming youre working for an “all quads” mesh, which people generally are). A setting higher than 4 means that the preview will fill in those holes even on ngons or weird geomtry formations, making it harder to troubleshoot. When you see a problem area, just delete the component and rewire it, you probably missed a target. If the “hole” only appears on one side, the symetry probably got broken just a little. Usually fixing it on both sides will fix the problem, if not you can turn off symmetry to adress the problem on the one side. Either way, dont sweat it too much…if youre comfortable in your external modeller, this mesh is easily and precisely touched up or re-mirrored there.

  1. Press A often to preview the mesh and look for trouble areas. Adjust the density slider in the “adaptive skin” menu to higher or lower levels to preview the true mesh, or a smoothed version.

6)Get in the habbit touching empty space before touching the model again after alt-clicking on a component to delete it. For some reason Z deafults the active vertex to another point after delting, and clicking the next point will draw and unwanted line. It’s easily undone, but it is very annoying, and I don’t know why Z does it.

  1. Make sure to turn off “edit topology” before saving your toplogy in progress.

Anyway, the “future of toplogy”, is that there is no one way to do things, and no one tool for every situation. Explore and learn what works best for you. Speaking as someone who can get lost for days trying to get that perfect mesh in an obsessive compulsive frenzy, I find the new topo tools in zb a very approachable way of rewiring my meshes, and I look forward to future versions improving this functionality.

[edit] Im really sorry, didnt realize how much i had written here.

Adaptive meshes made from Zspheres are not 100% perfectly symmetrical. If you’ve been frustrated by trying to retopo such a mesh using symmetry, and the points on the other side of the mirror line don’t seem to be responding, here’s what you need to do.

  1. Make adaptive skin from your zsphere rig
  2. Mask half the mesh, and then smart resym

Then your sym topo editing should work.

If it still doesn’t…

Try ‘unify’, if a mesh is too ‘big’, then retopo seems to not work very well. Warning, messes with your subtools!

If still no symmetry, try using deform->size to shrink it a bit farther.

If that doesn’t work,

Go to level 1, mask half the mesh, and smooth the other half with the smooth brush, then smart resym. Keep doing this for each subdiv level. Finally, after all this, symmetrical retopology on meshes derived from zspheres should work.

Please pixologic, fix this bug… :stuck_out_tongue:

Excellent tip Crusoe, I’ll keep that in mind.
As for modelling with maya (characters), well, I’m no expert, but isn’t it done mostly with polygons directly, rather than with a cube and extruding? And if so (and I do know that many people work in this way), isn’t almost exactly as using re-topo? The main difference is that you build the model first and then you put the poligons over it insted of in the aire.
I’m not an example of anything, but most of the time, use a pre-made model as a start (like the super average man that cames with zbrush). I try not to mess to much with the way of the topology and then correct it.
I’m pretty much the newbie always looking for the faster way. Although getting into maya is something that if you don’t do now you probably will tomorrow, so perhaps you should try both ways.
I hope I didn’t sound like an idiot
Best of lucks

Here’s an excellent thread for people wishing to get the most out of ZBrush’s topology features: http://209.132.96.165/zbc/showthread.php?t=44876

Yes, including lots of bug arounds.