ZBrushCentral

Poly Count Too Large to Merge my Sub Tools

ZBrush Usage Questions
#1

My character is 28218880 Polys. Each body part is at least 9 million polys. My system crashes when I try to merge them together. Each model segment requires such a high-poly count to retain their details, especially the face. Any less and I’m losing detail. For this character I will be doing close up shots so I can’t afford to lower the resolution at all.

So my question is, how do I merge such hi-poly tools into one character? Obviously I can’t animate it if its in parts. I need it merged and welded so I may begin the next step of my process.

Is there a way I can bake the skin detail from my individual hi-poly body parts as displacement, lower each body part to a manageable size, merge and weld them, then apply their maps to the merged and welded mesh? If this is possible please detail how I would go about doing this or the above solution. Thank you so much for your help. Preferably I need help with raising merging the hi-poly model parts since I I need to sculpt across model parts while the model is one mesh.

Attachments

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#2

you can use decimation master in the Zplugin menu for making less polygon subtools with the same details.but you must retopologize your subtools in a side program like maya or Max or Topogun (Topogun recommended) and then bake the maps into your low resolution model.remember even an awesome detailed character like Nathan Drake in Uncharted is less than 30000 polygon in realtime and about 98000 polygon for the cinematics.there is a lot of tutorials on the web for making low resulotion character like “Eat3D - ZBrush 4 Character Production 2 - Creating the Game Model with ZBrush and Maya”.hope these tips can help you.:wink:

#3

Are you sure you NEED 9 million poly? i have a feeling that some of that precious detail you were worried about would be better expressed with a bump map instead of trying to model it in. Im really curious what the character looks like.

#4

I’m not really certain where decimation master would get me at this time. I’m simply trying to get all my sub tools merged together so I can bake them all out into maps so I don’t need such a hi-poly count. The problem I’m having is getting my model to a state where I may begin creating maps out of the hi-res details.

In order for me to get the hi-res details to transition between model parts I need them all combined so I may begin sculpting on them as one mesh rather than on multi pieces.

Imagine it this way: imagine I have an arm that is hi-res and a torso that is hi-res, both which I manually detailed with alphas. Say the torso and the arm I want attached to it each other require 9 million polys and trust me, they do. For the purpose of the hi-res maps that I’m making to be clear and flawless they most definitely need 9 million polys, I guarantee this. Now in order for my arm and torso to transition flawlessly in regards to their surface details they need to be attached and sculpted on as one mesh, otherwise they will not blend. Try detaching an arm from a character and detailing it separately and tell me if you can get it to match up correctly to the character’s torso. The fact of the matter is that I cannot detail the parts separately and get them to blend with one another.

So yes, Drake is significantly lower in poly count as I intend this character to be in the end. The problem I’m having is sculpting the hi res details so I can create displacement maps from them. I need to be able to sculpt across my 28218880 poly character as one mesh. One giant hi-poly mesh. So yes, I’d love to use bump maps but in order for me to create bump maps from my detail I need to be able to draw out the detail in the first place. At this stage I can’t even begin to generate out my detail since I’m being bogged down by what seems to be a poly limit per mesh. Thanks for the help

Also, here is some proof that I am utilizing 8 million.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60108153@N05/14118914853/in/photostream/

2 million
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60108153@N05/14098830955/in/photostream/

Also, share with me your details on how to get all this fine detail onto a retopped mesh that can actually retain it. Wouldn’t that require me to somehow apply these maps to a new mesh entirely which would require that I UV it exactly how my original mesh is UVed?

#5

Less than 500K points in total http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=403899

#6

Yes but the detail on your model is larger. Skin pores are much smaller.

#7

Transpose Master will create a mesh from all the subtools. Maybe that would help ‘pull things together’ for you. Barring that you could Dynamesh them all together(always save a copy!!!) and reproject details. All things usually hit a ‘limit’ somewhere and require a bit of creative thinking(and or cheating).

#8

Lets do some math shall we.

1 Million evenly paced points of information with perfect 100% UV map usage will get you a 1k map.
4 million = 2k
16 million = 4k
64 million = 8k

You’re telling me that your face alone is going to require a little more than 2, 2k maps? So lets just say a single 4k x 2k? Just the face, not the whole head, just the face. The same will go for your hands, arms, legs, torso, etc. Each section of a body is going to require the use of a 4k x 2k map? How many of those maps are you going to need for 1 character?

If that is the case, when what you need to be using is HD geometry. You can make it as dense as you want, and bake a map from it. I don’t really recommend it. Pore level detail can be achieved on an entire head (including mouthbag, tongue, teeth, etc) with well under 4 million points. I know, I do it every day. It sounds like you’re trying to achieve unlimited polygonal detail, which can’t really be transfered into maps unless you have unlimited texture resolution. And even if you did have both, to what end? The only time geometry is really needed is for silhouette changes, pore level detail is never silhouette based and can be achieved faster with a bump map.

If you think taking your low res mesh and animating it, then using displacement maps to get your pore level details you’re going to have a bad time. Can you imagine waiting for a render engine to subDivide, displace and render all of that detail? Displacement is used for silhouette, normals and bump for finer details.

Eh, my 2 cents.

#9

I’m planning to create a 4k map created from my hi-res geometry. Even if I do create a bump map from my details, I still need the mesh to be hi-res enough to sculpt the details in the first place, right? Tell me more about this HD geometry. Where do I get it?

#10

http://docs.pixologic.com/user-guide/3d-modeling/modeling-basics/subdivision-levels/hd-geometry/

#11

I just came…

I need to try this when I get home

#12

I’m planning to create a 4k map created from my hi-res geometry.
so you want to generate a single 4k map? That resolution texture can really only support the same sculpting detail you’re going to get from a 16 million point mesh. The 16 million is only if you’re using 100% of your UV space. A well packed texture for a character is really only going to get ~90% of that space. If you break ~16 million you’re just wasting time sculpting as none of that detail will actually transfer to your maps. It doesn’t matter if you have 16 million or 160 million points. A 4k map can only have ~16 million pixels. Which is why sculpting details smaller than what a 16 million point mesh can hold doesn’t do anything.

I still need the mesh to be hi-res enough to sculpt the details in the first place, right?
No.
The idea is really no different than using a 256 map to try to hold all the sculpting information of 1 million point mesh. The map just can’t hold that much information.

#13

I don’t know the specifics but I do know that I intend on creating 3 or more 4k Bump Maps derived from a mesh that is at least capable of holding the detail I plan to bake out as the maps I intend. Considering the fact that the model, especially the face requires such a hi-poly count, it only makes sense, to me at least, that I would do so by giving a map per section of the model.

Well noted information. I hadn’t known the limits. I’m going to try out the HD Mesh.

One more thing. Does HD Mesh function with tools like projection Master and Zremesher?

#14

Don’t know. Never needed a single mesh to need more than 12 million points.

#15

What’s your final output? Film? Poster? Animation?

What tools (software) are you using and have available? Zbrush (obviously), Blender? Maya? 3DS Max? Vray? etc.

I think you’re over doing it. Describe what you’re trying to achieve. Advice will be given accordingly.

#16

I’m simply trying to create hi res displacement and texture maps for my model. 4k resolution

#17

A couple questions from post #15 above remain unanswered. :rolleyes:
I think it’s overkill too. :wink:

#18

Sorry I’m using 3ds max and vray, I will probably use this for film. Why is it overkill?

Edited for more details: after my detail is projected I will next wabt to hd sculpt it now that I’ve learned of hd geometry, after all my hd detailing is done I would like to create texture and displacement then export it to be rigged in 3ds and rendered with vray