ZBrushCentral

Morph Target?? Cage???

Hi,

I am a newbie with Zbrush. I am having critical problem undestanding Morph Target and Cage???

I want to make a displacement map or/and bump that I want to eventually export it and use it in Maya. I went through the tutorial, but everytime I come to Morph target then I am gone.

What is Morph Target?? Why do we need it???
Why do we need this for displacement map.
Why do I have to cage my geometry???

Please help me with this terminology and please tell me in ABC…easy way so I can understand…I am really lost here

Thanks alot

Here’s why you need a cage:

Take a polymesh object and divide it a few times. Return to subdivision level 1. Notice how it’s smaller/thinner? This is because of how multi-resolution subdivision editing works. Changes made at one level become translated across all other levels as soon as you switch levels. Subdividing also smooths your model, which causes it to contract. When you return to level one, that contraction at the higher levels affects your level one mesh. If you created a displacement map at this point, it would work perfectly for what you see in front of you – but would be wrong for the original, unsmoothed mesh. The displacements would be too strong and your render would come out really puffy.

As a result, you need to calculate your displacement map for the unsmoothed model – aka, the Cage.

After you have finished detailing your model, there are three ways to restore your level one mesh to a cage state so that you can calculate an accurate displacement map:

:small_orange_diamond: Import: If your model was originally imported from another program, then you can return to level one and press Tool>Import. Select the original model. It will replace the smoothed level one, restoring this level to its unsmoothed state so that you can create an accurate displacement map. After calculating the map, simply select it in the Alpha palette and export it. You do not need to export the mesh again, since you already have an OBJ of it. Note: If you think you may need to continue sculpting the high res model, you should save your model as a ZTL immediately before importing the original mesh again. Otherwise, restoring the base mesh will cause the upper levels to change as soon as you go to them, making it difficult to continue working. When you wish to return to those levels, you’d simply load the saved ZTL.

:small_orange_diamond: Morph Target: Another option is to store a morph target (click Tool>Morph Target>StoreMT) before you first subdivide the model. After you have done the high resolution detailing, you return to level one and press Tool>Morph Target>Switch. This switches to the stored (usnmoothed) state, ready for you to create an accurate displacement map. If you wish to return to the higher levels again, first press Switch again to get back the smoothed version of level one so that your upper levels are unchanged. If you use this technique on an imported mesh, there’s no need to export anything other than the displacment map. If you use it on a mesh that was created in ZBrush, you will need to export the unsmoothed low resolution mesh in addition to the displacement map.

:small_orange_diamond: Cage: This third option is sort of a last resort. You would use it if you don’t have an original mesh to import and also forget to store a morph target before dividing the mesh. After detailing the high resolution model, return to level one and activate Tool>Geometry>Cage. ZBrush will modify level one to create an unsmoothed mesh that’s as close as possible to the high resolution version. You can then calculate your displacement map and export both it and the cage. Before returning to higher subdivision levels, turn Cage off again. This method is not preferred because it does not restore your original level one. Instead, it’s an approximation and does not always give the best results. In fact, you may sometimes find that that Cage gives better results if you activate it at level two instead of level one. Whatever level you’re at when you activate it, that is the mesh that must be exported for use in your other programs.

So there you have it. As you can see, these are three UNIQUE methods of restoring an unsmoothed mesh before creating your displacement map. Many people try to mix and match methods by doing things like switching to a morph target, importing the original mesh and then turning on the Cage. That’s bad news. You should only use ONE of the three choices. Which one is best for you will depend on the situation you find yourself in when you’re ready to create the displacement map.

Have an imported mesh? Use the first method. Have an original ZBrush mesh? Store a morph target before dividing and use that. Forget to store a morph target? Use the Cage.

Hope that helps.

Hi Aurick,

thanks a lot for that clear and detailled message. I have a question which relates to my workflow:

(I always use what I call “Zack Petroc”-approach to create both organized mesh and
displacements for maya;

  • I roughly block out geometry in maya using reference material for right proportions
  • Then I import the geometry to ZBrush, detail it up to medium level and paint an organized mesh onto the surface + export this medium res version
  • back to maya I import a medium res version of the geometry and build an organized mesh (using “make live” and create polygon tool)
  • after having created a UV layout I export it to ZBrush and model + detail it)

So here´s my question:
I have now my detailed model in ZBrush ready for exporting geometry and displacement maps. I don´t want to reimport the basic organized mesh from maya at this point as my ZBrush model is tuned much better than the organized mesh from maya.
I also have no morph target stored (as that wouldn´t make sense in my workflow as I modify the geometry in ZBrush also at lower levels).
So the cage option seems to me the only good choice for getting the desired Subd in Maya.

Do you agree with this or would you suggest a different approach, even if it would mean a change of my workflow?

:confused:

Regards,

You learn something new every day. Thanks Aurick.

TD

Ok Matt, that does it.

I’m preordering your book today… and don’t try to talk me out of it. :lol:

Sven

I made some testrenderings to check it
(qite complicated geometry regarding UV-layout; thus there is some distortion)

>hires (to compare)
>cage
>no cage

it seems the cage method is best for me

hires:

cage

without cage

if you download and compare the images you can see the difference…

by the way: this is the body of a flea-model I am currently working on

cheers m°

Given the particular approach that you use, it does seem that the Cage method is the best for your needs. If possible, I recommend that you create the cage at level 2, as well as the displacement map, then export those. Cage works best when the model is already close to the final shape. Level 2 will usually fit that bill better than level 1. Although – for a model as relatively simple (at the low poly level) as the one you’re using here, it probably wouldn’t make much difference either way.

Thanks for your advice, Aurick!

Regards,

Michael

Hello.
Thank you a lot for these tips.

I’m not good at ZBrush(& English) yet, so excuse me. :cry:

Anyway, I worked on ZB3 these few days.

I got a OBJ from my coworker(XSIuser).
For that OBJ, I’m supposed to make a DispMap, using ZB.

So imported that at ZB, and detailed it,
without any Morph Target. (I just had no idea.)

Now I have “Detailed ZTL file” and “Original OBJ file”.

Detailed ZTL. It has 2 Subdiv levels.
Since I detailed it a lot at Subdiv level 1 already,
I can not have Level 1 state as Morph Target.

I want to have the Original OBJ as Morph Target of my Detailed ZTL.

However, they are two indifendent files, aren’t they?
How can I have the OBJ as MT?

To do that,
I put the detaied ZTL at Subdiv level 1 state,
and imported the original OBJ.
… and ZB was crushed. :cry:

Is there any tips? right steps?
Is it possible idea?

I would be really appriciated if it is.
Thanks.

(I may open the Ori OBJ again, MorphTarget and detail it again. However that’s hard work to detail it again T.T, so I want to use the old detailed one anyway.)

Is there a way to re-import an obj into the lowest subdiv level without matching the same polycount? Perhaps there’s a way to add lower subdivs with lower polycounts?

I have tried the Reconstruct Subdiv button which doesn’t seem to respond or do anything. I really need to get a low poly obj into sdiv 1 so I can make a normal map.

I tried re-importing the hipoly into the highest subdiv of the lowpoly but it crashes zbrush as its in excess of 6.9million polys.

I need to recreate my level 1 sdiv but my current one is over 100k which is too big for zmapper. I have a low poly obj from 3dsmax and I want to import that into sdiv 1 but because sdiv 1 is already over 100k it means i have to subdivide the original to the same number of polys (thereby defeating the object).
So here im stuck. I have a morph target on sdiv 1 but its again the same 100k+ polys which still is a problem.

This is my first zbrush project. Please help!!

When importing into a 3D tool the vertex count of the imported geometry must match the vertex count of the currently selected subdivision level. If you cannot reconstruct lower subdivision levels you are out of luck in this area.

However, it is possible to compare two arbitrary pieces of geometry in order to calculate a normal map. ZMapper will allow you to do that.

Link > ZMapper Projection.

Search www.zbrush.info for more on ZMapper.

Thanks TVeyes. I read the link but unfortunately step 1 says to open the high res mesh is zmapper which is impossible as it says it cant open ztools/meshes over 500k. So how do I get this mesh in so that I can reproject it?

The reconstruct subdiv button suddenly worked! I managed to fix it!

Please could some of you more seasoned zbrush users help me out on my Ice project thread?

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=58842

It would be much appreciated as my project deadline is approaching and i havent had much feedback.