Little suggestions for the next release

[Marsw]

Dear sirs, I apologize in advance in the case that this rubrique isn’t exactly fitting for suggestions’ posts, but indeed I didn’t found any place better than this among the remainder ones. In the contrary case, please move this thread in a more fitting place and delete this highlight.

I would like to suggest you some things for the next release.

I know that zbrush is a solid application (I admit it is the best in the market, for its field), and that you eventually wouldn’t welcome any critiques (either constructive or less), 'cause you feel to “dictate the rules”: and I’m aware that many people who use it daily could rather critique my highlights not yet 'cause the interface and the working method are really functional per se, but simply 'cause they didn’t got other choices than getting absorbed by them as they was conceived by zbrush’s coders.

I’m afraid, infacts, that zbrush could be rendered even more user-friendly for anybody, if only you would follow the rules of common sense and usual interfacing (which comes from studies and trial&error since the existence of personal computers). I guess that you had in mind something “different” when you first coded this app, and I know that it is difficult to sail away from the beaten track when an app’s name has been consolidated: though, I think that sometimes it is worthful to avoid a completely drastic separation from “common thinking”, in order to avoid also eventual issues with wide usability.

1. You may begin first off from putting three typical “close”, “minimize” and “maximize” buttons instead of the current ones, which are really ennoying. Whatever would be their graphical appearance, it isn’t important: what’s important is just that they close, maximize and minimize the GUI the same way as we see for the 99,99% apps in the world. It would be very appreciated.

1a) Same as for the headbar: please use a File, Modify, Tools etc. system…

2. You may considere to eliminate that useless, meaningless, ridiculous starting cursor (don’t you like a normal waterclock / pointer cursor? Too “banal”?) and arrange the GUI so to leave visible the windows’ taskbar; it is really ennoying to get absorbed by the work and don’t even being able to look at what time it is in the taskbar…

3. What’s the purpose to save either a document and a tool? Just use only a file with *.zbr format extension. I guess that this will solve also several problems like the failure to load a given document (for which issue there isn’t any solutions so far, than “multiple savings”…) after hours of modeling…

4. The zsphere should be put apart, 'cause it is a very important element for structural constructing. Either do this, or arrange in another way the library that contains it: it is both ennoying and ridiculous to scroll down a tiny pointerbar in order to reach the 46th place to pick it up…

4a) You may remove the “basic shapes” library (that with hound, bust etc.) from the top shelf, and put it into some other part of the top bar’s writings (e. g. “Tools”).

5. You may considere also some snapping options, some precise measuring tool, and some commands such as hollowing and thickening.

5a) Something to clone a brush around some path, filling the targeted area so that the brush is spanning its entire area (mean, the repeating brushes tile themselves without gaps inbetween eachother).

6. A standard way for inserting referencing images and planes, instead of using those DIY crossing flat wafers.

This is what comes immediately in my mind: though I guess that there will be more to come…

Thanks for your attention. Regards.

[Trist]

Hello,

First off, I just want to say that I am not an employee of Pixologic so I can’t speak for them but I felt the need to respond to your thread.

I agree with your opinion of ZBrush being a solid app and the best in it’s field etc but after that you kinda lost me.

To be honest I don’t think you really understand what you are talking about for the first part, making assumptions about Pixologic and it’s user base that I believe are untrue. You make some valid points but the language you use to this end just comes across as arrogant and obnoxious.

Nobody responds well to that kind of attitude.

Anyway, I would like to take a moment to address some of your comments. Just my 2 cents…

You write “you eventually wouldn’t welcome any critiques (either constructive or less)”. Eventually? You mean by the time they have finished reading the post? Yeah, that’s likely. Jokes aside, I have found Pixologic to be very responsive to any feedback or suggestion I have given them.

I can totally understand your dislike of the UI in ZB but it’s widely known that the workflow takes some getting used to. It’s also widely known that Pixologic designed the software from the ground up with the artist in mind. I can’t see this changing.

Besides it’s more fun this way

“if only you would follow the rules of common sense and usual interfacing (which comes from studies and trial&error since the existence of personal computers” - condescending much? It’s not going to happen.

I don’t think there is too much of a problem with a “drastic separation from “common thinking”” in Zbrush. To me, this would only be an issue if I couldn’t take my work into other apps for animating, rendering and such. If you understand the process, everything translates well.

As for some of your more specific points and in my opinion,

• The UI (the headbar etc) I still find it a little alien being so used to just about everything else out there but you get over the quirks. Again, I don’t think this will change because most artists are used to it.

• Is it really that crucial to “eliminate that useless, meaningless, ridiculous starting cursor”? Does it bother you that much? Also I don’t see how the generic cursor is more meaningful?? Wouldn’t you rather see Pixologic spend more time developing tools that actually enhance your workflow?

• Snapping for precision could be a nice feature, the developers are most likely looking into it.

• Lastly, ZB 4R5 has a new feature to temporarily make the window transparent so you can see through to any reference you need and sculpt using it as a guide (I think you can see the time on your taskbar too!). I haven’t used this much but I think it will be useful.

Again, this is all just me talking. I’m sure others have their own point of view in relation to what you have said.

Pixologic are an open minded bunch but your post sounds more offensive than constructive. More flies with honey Ya’nno?

I hope your ideas get through.

Cheers.

EDIT: Reading through your original post again, it doesn’t look that bad to me now. I guess I misinterpreted your style of writing simply because it is different to my own. I hope you didn’t take offence to my little joke.

You have made some valid points.

…and yes, I did unknowingly use the words “a little alien being” in a sentence somewhere. :lol:

Peace out.

[Cryrid]

My two cents for things that immediately jumped out to me:

You may begin first off from putting three typical “close”, “minimize” and “maximize” buttons …please use a File, Modify, Tools etc. system…

The current system allows them to get a consistent look across different operating systems (and I’m not sure what behavior you’re getting, but on every machine I’ve used it on they seem to minimize, maximize, and close the application just like any other program).

A basic file menu meanwhile is not needed for this program. Those work great for simpler apps like notepad, but zbrush requires more menus otherwise there would be even more clutter.

arrange the GUI so to leave visible the windows’ taskbar; it is really ennoying to get absorbed by the work and don’t even being able to look at what time it is in the taskbar…

Hit the Restore/Maximize button and arrange the window size to your liking if you need to see the taskbar.

What’s the purpose to save either a document and a tool? Just use only a file with *.zbr format extension.

NO! Tools and Documents are COMPLETELY different things (like comparing the difference between a jpg and an obj, except the differences are even more severe/advanced), and quite frankly it seems a bit foolish to ask that they combine them into a single file by default if you don’t understand the concepts behind them or why people would want to save them separately. All this request would do is cause more problems for everyone. Documents and tools strike me as being a major foundation to zbrush, it would be wise to learn what they are before requesting changes to them.

If you you want a single file that has both elements, save a project instead.

4. The zsphere should be put apart…

(I’m not sure what the zsphere paragraph means to be honest)

4a) You may remove the “basic shapes” library (that with hound, bust etc.) from the top shelf, and put it into some other part of the top bar’s writings (e. g. “Tools”).

The lightbox is actually yours to rearrange and change as you see fit. If you don’t want those specific meshes there, you can remove them and add in your own basemeshes by saving them to the corresponding directories (Pixologic\ZBrush 4R5\ZTools for tools). The same goes for changing the brushes, materials, alphas, and anything else that appears in the lightbox. If you use zbrush a lot, it’s really worth tailoring this aspect of it to fit your needs; that’s why its there.

Otherwise, these specific meshes don’t really belong in the Tool palette as they are polymeshes that can’t be initialized.

[Marsw]

Hello,
< snip>

EDIT: Reading through your original post again, it doesn’t look that bad to me now. I guess I misinterpreted your style of writing simply because it is different to my own. I hope you didn’t take offence to my little joke.

You have made some valid points.

…and yes, I did unknowingly use the words “a little alien being” in a sentence somewhere. :lol:

Peace out.

Sorry for the misunderstanding: it rests ensured anyway that it isn’t new to me (language barreer and different way to arrange the periods’ propositions in my own language; also too less “pleases” in my language…). Btw, forums are keen to easy polemics and misunderstandings, specially among foreign users (I’m on internet since it exists, as I guess you too were: so I think that we may exert the humble arrogance to know what we say).

My two cents for things that immediately jumped out to me:

The current system allows them to get a consistent look across different operating systems (and I’m not sure what behavior you’re getting, but on every machine I’ve used it on they seem to minimize, maximize, and close the application just like any other program).

I’m on WIndoze 7; is this a not-so-common OS?

A basic file menu meanwhile is not needed for this program. Those work great for simpler apps like notepad, but zbrush requires more menus otherwise there would be even more clutter.

As I suspected: language barreer. I wouldn’t like less menu voices, but more familiarly arranged ones. Just ‘cause, as yet you yourself said, the OS platforms are many, so many are also the wishes of the users. That’s why, in the impossibility to cheer any users’ tastes, it would be preferable to use a GUI which is most similar to the ones engineered for the most common apps (though not necessariously so complex like a notepad…). This may also strenghten a wider spreading of this app; a great concept with a clumsy dress, is just an half great concept. A little effort in this is required.

Hit the Restore/Maximize button and arrange the window size to your liking if you need to see the taskbar.

Though this might happen by default automatically, as it does any other normal application wherein the OS taskbar usually won’t get hid.

NO! Tools and Documents are COMPLETELY different things (like comparing the difference between a jpg and an obj, except the differences are even more severe/advanced), and quite frankly it seems a bit foolish to ask that they combine them into a single file by default if you don’t understand the concepts behind them or why people would want to save them separately. All this request would do is cause more problems for everyone. Documents and tools strike me as being a major foundation to zbrush, it would be wise to learn what they are before requesting changes to them.

Due I don’t understand the meaning of this fine difference, I restrain from further deeply commenting this…

If you you want a single file that has both elements, save a project instead.

… just to skip on commenting this. Ok; so, let’s use just projects instead of doc and tools, due a project file includes both. “Keep it simple, stupid”.

(I’m not sure what the zsphere paragraph means to be honest)

I could rather understand you. I did meant that the zsphere should be considered a most important structural element, so it should be put apart from the tools palette (unless the latter will be conceived as thits items will be better arranged than currently, obviously) and put into some special shelf, or just a isolated icon.

Thanks.

[Richard_Marklew]

I’m on WIndoze 7; is this a not-so-common OS?
ZBrush is both a Windows and OSX application

[Marsw]

ZBrush is both a Windows and OSX application

I know it: my reply was meant just to signify to him that there is not so a great a variety of commonly used OS’s.

[Cryrid]

I know it: my reply was meant just to signify to him that there is not so a great a variety of commonly used OS’s.

Using w7 does nothing to nullify the fact that ZBrush runs on multiple operating systems, and currently looks identical thanks to the current setup of the UI.

I wouldn’t like less menu voices, but more familiarly arranged ones. .

The current setup is alphabetical. If they put File first just for the sake of having File listed first, then the remaining Menu order wouldn’t make much sense.

Though this might happen by default automatically, as it does any other normal application wherein the OS taskbar usually won’t get hid.

…Every fullscreen application hides the taskbar automatically.

… just to skip on commenting this. Ok; so, let’s use just projects instead of doc and tools, due a project file includes both. “Keep it simple, stupid”.

Again, no. Using a single file wont keep things simple at all, it would only complicate things both for people who know what the difference is and don’t want their documents saved with their tools (or vice versa), and newcommers who would wonder why their 3d sculpt has an imbedded background or why their simple file is suddenly 15x larger in file size. Documents have their own uses, tools have their own uses, projects have their own uses. It’s really, really, really worth understanding the simple difference between the 3d tool and the 2d document before suggesting they get thrown out the window.

The document is really an image document. It doesn’t contain a single polygon, it’s just a 2d grid of pixels/pixols (but instead of just storing RGB color information, each pixel also contain some depth, material, layer and lighting information as well). The tool is more of a standard 3d model file that is made out of vertices and contains it’s own type of layers, morph targets, UVs, and vertex color information and more. There is no sense in combining the two into a single format any more than having Max try and save it’s scenes into a Photoshop file ‘just because one file sounds simpler’. It’s really not. It’s seriously apples and oranges, and having only a hybrid fruit would make having pure orange juice or a slice of apple pie that much harder.

Projects exist for a reason, and it’s not to prevent the individual saving and exporting of a document or tool.

I did meant that the zsphere should be considered a most important structural element, so it should be put apart from the tools palette

The zsphere is a tool though, so it belongs logically with the rest of the tools. On its own it holds no greater importance as a building block than a cube or a sphere might or a cone might. I don’t think it’s hard for anyone to find it or anything, it’s sitting right there when you bring up the menu. If you are a heavy zsphere user you can always drag it out onto the UI where ever you want.

[Marsw]

…Every fullscreen application hides the taskbar automatically.

Perhaps that’s why there’s so great plenty of modeling/sculpting fullscreen starting apps?

As for the rest, well: your replies are explanatory, but - please don’t feel personally bothered - evidently they consolidate what I said about the fact that every app gathers the users whose mindset agrees with the one of the people who coded it.

Cheers.

[Cryrid]

Zbrush isn’t other 3d applications. I’m not sure how you ping-pong between insisting a program should be designed for everyone, while suggesting they do it your way to match your OS.

[Marsw]

Zbrush isn’t other 3d applications. I’m not sure how you ping-pong between insisting a program should be designed for everyone, while suggesting they do it your way to match your OS.

I’ve smelled someone would say such.
It is a 3d application anyway: I guess it it is not a parametric cad, nor being a “sculpting app” makes it any different than anything which deals with 3d modeling and polygons, except (perhaps) for the working approach: but this isn’t a pregnant difference, if not for users who’re supinely happy with that.
The “fact” that it currently doesn’t look like 99,9% of normal 3d apps, doesn’t make it whatever else, so I don’t understand why one would keep on stating that anything is good the way it is now since origins, just 'cause this way the ones who produce zbrush envisioned it: rather, from what I read from you, I guess that you were among the prime who’ll still accept & use it anyway, even if the producers would change the GUI and workflow/mindset of it, 'cause I think that you like the fact that “it sculpts”: the concept, rather than the dress. Well, I’m not of the same kind: I would like a good concept with a usablier, easier and better looking GUI. So, I don’t even like to be tought of to be constrained within the limits which others accept supinely, specially if things could be surely made even better than currently are.

Perhaps it is not still clear to you (or, more surely, it’s me the one who’s unable to explain easily), but I “critique” the current zbrush not yet 'cause I don’t like it at all, but 'cause I like it very much, albeit only as for the concept: though, I don’t like it as for the interfacing and some other bits of the workflow, which IMHO could be embettered alot. If an app is “the best” and one must choose it forcibly 'cause the others cannot beat it, this won’t involve either that one must eat the chicken with the whole skin, but one could suggest to embetter what could be made better. I guess that we are still in regime of opinion’s freedom and democracy.

As for the OS (for you make it a pivotal point of your sentences), so far we have only two major OS’s served: so it isn’t really the matter to taylor zbrush to “my” OS, but I rather stated that it should be good for any OS’s (which is independent from what is the interface of any apps… The latter run inside of it, whatever the OS is), with a GUI which is better usable.

Regards.