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Intel Inside - Experiment

ZBrush Usage Questions
#1

OK, several threads exist on this so I’ll be brief.

Zbrush 2.0 currently works on Mac Intel. Not official, not yet anyway.

I have had it running for some time now. Wonderful!!!

BIG CAVEAT HERE!!! Issues exist. So I’m looking for some guinea pigs to work through some instructions, and report back with specific info. This is to help others get up and going.

  1. It’s pretty fast even under Rosetta emulation.

  2. I am using a MacBookPro 17", 2GB RAM, Duo 2.16 processor and 100GB 7200 drive. OS X 10.4.7, now running 10.4.8.

  3. At least 1 test machine cannot get Zbrush running at all!!!

  4. Every other test machine can get it running, but has some starting Zbrush issues at varying intervals.

  5. Has even been loadded and run on MacBook 13", 512MB RAM, Duo 1.83 processor and 60GB 5400 drive. Ran very well, but not the recommended system for sure.

  6. G5 PPC Dual 2.5GHz single-thread test was 7.916 and multi-thread was 4.646 as a base test. MacBookPro Intel Duo 2.16GHz single-thread test was 16.91 and multi-thread was 9.3729 (under Rosetta emulation!) The best I had on my previous dual processor G4 1.3GHz was 11.4 threaded.

OK so if your in for a little mad scientist type stuff, here is what I’m asking of you.

a) Try Zbrush on your Intel system and report back.

b) So if you already moved Zbrush 2 to your system and got the license update you should be ready. If not test with the demo, until your sure and want to have a new license issued as per the instructions in your application folder 2.0 or 1.5 depending when you came aboard.

If you run the demo, just install and get the code from your email.

c) Report back with the following info (just copy an paste this section to your post here:

Processor speed:
Memory (MB) as supplied by Apple:
Memory (MB) installed afterwards:
Memory installed afterwards - Paired (Y/N):
Memory vendor:
OS X version:
Dev Tools installed?:
Anything else you can think might be relevant:
Success (Y/N):
Issues:
Opinion:
No. of tries before launch?:
After quitting, No. of tries before launch?:

OK NOW THE FUN PART!!!

So you get Zbrush installed by whichever process above. You start Zbrush, be PATIENT, it will take 40-60sec for Rosetta, Zbrush, memory, whatever to assemble in working order. Now if you try something, response should be immeadiate. If you get the super duper spinning beach ball you have discovered the issues that crop at random intervals! Foce quite Zbrush CMD-Option_ESC, select Zbrush. Wait 1 minute, yes 1 minute as it seems Rosetta doesn’t let go of her children all that quickly. Try again. Usually you are hot doggin in Zbrush by now. Otherwise repeat.

OK, so what happens if you get nadda? No start at all. Post your specs as listed above as I try to solve this with a few hearty and caring individuals.

So you are fully aware I have had Zbrush running under intel since the 15th of September. Almost every day, never crashed once, only had 4 times that had to be playful to get it running. Handles my large files very easily, 65MB the largest so far, still pushing to see where it lags. I think the solution is close, but it’s time for a larger test pool.

Thank you in advance for your help. :wink:

#2

I’ve experienced the Rosetta issues and had the beach ball problem. What seems to work the most is simply rebooting if ZBrush doesn’t take.

I’ll try waiting longer as an experiment and give you some feedback. I’ve found restarting seems to make it easier to get Zbrush going. I sometimes get the beachball, but usually after that, Zbrush WILL run and run well. I did have some trouble with crashing but I attribute that to the fact I only had 512K of RAM. Now I have 2 GB and ZBrush is behaving very nicely.

I’ve had ZBrush for about a month.

Processor speed: 1.67 ghz
Memory (MB) as supplied by Apple: 512 k
Memory (MB) installed afterwards: 2 GB
Memory installed afterwards - Paired (Y/N): Yes!
Memory vendor: Omni Technologies/ via ebay $239.00 US
OS X version: 10.4.8
Dev Tools installed?: no
Anything else you can think might be relevant:See above
Success (Y/N): Yes
Issues:See above
Opinion: Works for me!
No. of tries before launch?: 2 or 3
After quitting, No. of tries before launch? 2 or 3

#3

Thank you willbrown1.

Instead of the drastic reboot approach. Try force quitting when you get th ebeachball, wait a minute. Then retry. Also can you try a second approach, click on/open another Apple app, such as Safari, after force quittting, then Zbrush and be sure to go slow. Rushing Rosetta seems to be bad in general. Please let me know the results after several tests.

Glad your up and running and thank you this will help everyone else. :wink:

#4

:+1:

Jason,

I’ll give it a go. I’ll report my results tomorrow.

One thing. When I can start Zbrush, Zbrush stalls and doesn’t present itself on screen until I click on it in the Dock, then it pops open. I can hear the hard drive (external) it’s installed on working, and when it stops doing its thing, that’s when I click on it in the Dock.

#5

Interesting, haven’t heard that ‘feature’ yet. Thank you. If we can get at least 5-6 more people, I think we can get a short instruction set for people and go about business as usual until 2.5 comes out and solves the issues forever. :wink:

Then Pixologic can pin it to the top of the threads. :wink:

#6

After thinking it was probably hopeless, I found this thread. Did as instructed and Wham! It works!

Processor speed: 2 x 2.66 Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Memory (MB) as supplied by Apple: 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM
Memory (MB) installed afterwards: 0 GB
Memory installed afterwards - Paired (Y/N): No
OS X version: 10.4.8
Dev Tools installed?: no
Anything else you can think might be relevant: I ran the multi-processor test and obtained these results:
Single=9.764 Multi=5.44 44% Increase.
I also have the windows version running on my Mac Pro via Boot Camp; multi-processor test via windows version:
Single=4.75 Multi=3.114 34.4% Increase.
Success (Y/N): Yes

#7

That’s pretty impressive emulation speed vs the Windows speed!

I’m also impressed with the MacPro speed as I’ll be ordering several for the core work on an upcoming feature.

I’m also impressed with the power of my MacBookPro as compared with the MacPro. :wink:

Thank you very much dougt for your help and keep us informed of any issues. A few more people and continuous feedback from those posting here should narrow things down and hopefully get a solid solution over the next couple weeks. :wink:

#8

Jason,

Results:

Started ZBrush got spinning rainbow. Forced quit. Opened Preview, waited 1 minute, restarted Zbrush.

Voila!

Zbrush was up and running.

Thanks, this will save me from rebooting.

#9

Good, keep us informed. Next Friday would be nice for an update from you how things went all week, like how many times you had to do this, did it work right away after each attempt, etc… Especially if you run into something not yet mentioned. Everyone appreciates your help. :wink:

#10

Well I am totally new at Zbrush but have been around Macs since they were Lisas and Computers way longer than that. 3D and Imaging along wit hart and Music are my main interests and finding Zbrush was like finding the pot of gold at the md of the Rainbow.

my Set up is
Processor speed:2.16 GHz
Memory (MB) as supplied by Apple:2 Gb 667 Mhz DDR2 SDram
Memory (MB) installed afterwards:0
Memory installed afterwards - Paired (Y/N):
Memory vendor:Apple
OS X version:10.4.8
Dev Tools installed?:Yes
Anything else you can think might be relevant: I have been working through the Zbrush 2 Practical guide and made a mistake modifying the interface. I created a couple of windows the ones that are made by control dragging on the bar that appears at the top. Unfortunately I did not notice my error whic hwas to locate these small windows, one a Draw and one a color one in the bar where the tools come up with initial launch.
Now every time I attempt to relocate the draw window, I am guaranteed to hang upw it hzbrush going into the spinning ball mode and not getting out of it.
Success (Y/N):Success yes it works on an Intel system
Issues:Maybe I should have put the above coment here, but the only real issue I have is the fact that it usually takes several attempts to boot Zbrush 2. V1.55 seems to work flawlessly very stable.
Opinion:For what this application does the multiple relaunches are an annoyance but that is all it is. Once I am up and running V2 works fine.
No. of tries before launch?:Usually between 3 to 5 times with no restarts required, in fact I have found restarts to be redundant.
After quitting, No. of tries before launch?:Pretty much the same as an initial launch. I have to point out that many times the program launches very quicly indeed, virtually no waiting at all.

I would be very willing to participate in working with anyone getting Zbrush operational fully on my Macbook Pro.

I should have my Mc Pro system available over the next week or so and would like to install Zbrush on that system which is going to be really loaded, right down to the High end Nvidia card.

Right now I am using my Macbook Pro with a 30" Apple Cinema display in mirror mode as most of the other systems here are dedicated to other uses. Mostly Music and Audio work.

My Macbook Pro is loaded with software and some of it is certain to be interacting with the system, especially the Retrospect backup software and other stuff, some of which I need to dump (Just been too lazy to do it).
When I consider that a ;ot of the applications were simply transferred from my G4 Powerbook using Apple’s migration assistant I got very lucky in that I pretty much only had to reinstall applications that needed re authorizing Etc.
Even though Rosetta does cause a performace hit, there are some plug ins for Cinema 4d that will only work in Rosetta so I have to use C4D in that mode on occasion.
Also If I want to watch the BBC Video clips, I have to use Safari in Rosetta as Video for Windows will only boot in Rosetta.

AS far as Zbrush is concerned it is an application that i have longed for and I guess being sick for a while caused me to miss it, but I am really glad I have it now.

(if it’s worth it, it’s worth waiting for)
Stuart

:eek: :slight_smile: :mad: :slight_smile:

#11

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#12

Stuartpa, just log back into your first or second post and edit/delete it, only you can.

As for your interface issue, try searching the forum, awhile back quite a few people were customizing the look and I believe that issue came up and was resolved.

As posted above your post, running on the MacPro doesn’t seem to be an issue. As for the 3-5 times to get Zbrush running, are you following the tips we posted above? They seemd to eliminate most of this ffor the systems tested thus far (save that one).

Please let me know. :wink:

#13

HI Jason, it appears I can edit my either of my double posts but cannot delete either one.

I have read the tips listed in the Thread and the one that seems to work for me is, if Zbrush fails to open, then opening Preview next and then closing it, allows Zbrush to open virtually instantaneously.

One thing I have noticed that may be of use, is in general since I got the 10.4.8 update isa whole multiplicity of things don’t work consistently. This even affects the mouse.
Bluetooth disappears and the only way to get it back is to fully reset the MMU on the Macbook. Plus a lot of other oddities like getting a switch for the Startup disk icon in system preferences. I have the same issues with the G5’s I have as well so it is not confined to the Intel Macs.

On another issue related to this thread, it appears on initial reading that you are getting faster speeds out of your Macbook Pro than you are with the Mac Pro. Did I get this right or was it a misinterpretation.

I could not find anything that related to restoring the original Interface so I reinstalled V2. Eveything is back to Normal.

Zbrush 2 Demo worked well enough on my MacBook Pro that it got me to actualy purchase the software within about 2 hours, so even though there is some issues on some machines mine seems to have escaped any major issues.
Thanks for your replies and this thread.
Stuart

#14

Hello Stuartpa, thanks for the update.

By edit, just delete the text, should work.

No, the MacPro is faster than the MacBookPro. However the MacBookPro faired far better than expected against that monster machine. :slight_smile: I use my MacBookPro a lot on sets and working through issues with the powers that ‘be’. A few years ago I’d have killed for one of these when Graeme and I were developing the real cool capabilities attached to the Sony/Panavision 24p HD cameras. The older laptops just didn’t cut it. Now when our new Red Digital cameras arrive, we should have some fun. :wink:

Glad things are working better for you now, please keep us informed, I think my theories are proving out. Gotta order more Intel toys!

As for your other issues under the latest update, I have seen none of that. Did you have firewire devices plugged in when you updated? If so that is a no-no. A suggestion for you, Super Duper - and an external firewire drive. This will make an exact clone just before you update or daily or both, just in case. It is worth the cheap fee, it is worth $100,000 plus, I know from experience. :lol: Either way, at this point your best option is to backup (Super Duper) and re-install the OS from scratch, do not keep settings. Once that is up and running and working with the errant devices you are golden. Now re-install your apps, get the system pristine, now clone with Super Duper. I have several drives over yonder, a clone, a RAID mirror of the clone, and all working files on client drives (1 or more for each), this ensures everything is modular and I have very few headaches. It’s like good tires, when you need 'em, you better have them or your day is going to be bad.

#15

I already did try the edit function and deleting all the content, but it still required me to have at least one word so i guess that is what I will do.

I just got he packaged version of Zbrush but I guess I do not need to install that just use it as a backup in case I need it.

#16

Never heard of SUper Duper but I am definitely off to get it.

What i do befor every update is I use Retrospect full version to Duplicate my Startup drive and then install the Update, but I was not aware that I should not have any Firewire devices connected when installing updates.

Usually I don’t use the Software updater for any major OS Updates I download the Combo File as we have too many systems here to just download the OS Update as a single item, although sometimes I will let it download in the background. The trouble with that is the update is machine and current OS specific, so I find the Combos handy in cases where I have not got every system on the exact same release of the OS.

I have tried the trick opening an application such as Preview after ZB crashes and multiple tests seem to indicate that on my system it was just an illusion. It does not magically make Zbrush work. Also on occasion, immediately restarting ZBrush after quitting working in it, I only get a few fragmented parts of the Interface in odd places all over the screen.

Once I get Zbrush up and running it works flawlessly, this after I reinstalled it to get back to the default settings and leaving that area alone for now.
It seems as reliable as any of the apps I currently use and once it manages to boot seems rock solid.
I do notice that one the occasions when i had to register the software etc, it booted first time every time, so maybe the welcome screen has something odd about it or the startup script, maybe a short delay needs to be added to allow Rosetta to settle into its ZBrush configuration before it loads anything else.
Thanks for the info on the Mac Pros, it looks like mine are going to be delayed 10 days further as the additions i want installed are not immediately available. I hope everything works with the latest Nvidia card that Apple is offering or I am going to have to eat that one and get a HIgh end Radeon.
SO far I have run through a good part of the Practical guide with nothing going wrong at all except for the Interface modifications and I still think, as long as I never accessed those changes to get at the tools they represented it would still have worked fine. I have to admit that this is a pretty odd bug. Usually if an application fails to boot a couple of times you can forget about it.
I still feel sure that something is loading too fast for Rosetta to recognize and as each time an app is loaded in OS X if you immediately reload it, after quitting it, the next launch is very fast. So maybe each restart of Zbrush just gets the Ram set up the way it is needed crashes out and then by about the 3 rd to 5th time, it has got enough RAM organised that it can load properly. Just a feeling.
It would als obe nice to be able to control the Virtual Ram Zbrushuses, much in the same way Photoshop allows you to set up different scratch drives, to see what effect that has.

The bottom line is Zbrush works on my Intel Mac and I am pretty sure it will with some troubleshooting (Checking startup items for example) work with most current Intel based Macs.

Stuart :+1:

#17

Thank you. Make sure you give some time before restarting Zbrush or doing anything and you should load fine and run. It’s a Rosetta/Zbrush race to open issue for sure. I initially thought it was the startup screen, but it seems to be before that. All this info is being passed back to the wizard’s at Pixologic in hopes of getting a patch. However we all seem fully functional except for the random start up failure. Well all except one that is, he still can’t get Zbrush to run at all, which makes me suspect something else entirely is wrong with his system. Keep us informed, and thank you. :wink:

Anyone else???

#18

Well apart from the Startup Zbrush is working fine. THe only problem I had was when I had to hide it to do some other work. When it came back to the fronts it was definitely fragmented in its actions, but a reboot of the application cured all that.
Pretty much used it all day Friday with that being the only problem.

By the way thanks for the Super Duper tip, Good One been looking for somethng like that for a while to replace Restrospect as I have a feeling they are going to drop the Mac Platform.

Stuart

#19

Whilst working through the Paractical guide Z Bamboo the lesson that starts with crating Masking and modifying a 3D Sphere, I got most of the work done, and went to move the Sphere. My cursor was resting over the Dock area which was in Hide mode but visible because of the cursor location.
When I hit the Move button at the side of Interface not the Edit Move, the dock slected one of the application icons, magnified and would not let go.
Tried a few tricks with the activity monitor no luck, as soon as I Force quit Zbrush the cursor let go of the dock. Repeated this twice in succesion, then the glitch appeared to stop happening.

Just a report and so far not an issue.

#20

I’ve had intermittent success getting Zbrush to run without rebooting the Mac.

I’ve closed out and after a few attempts got it running again, without restarting the Mac. I’ve used the open an Apple app trick with limited success. It seems to work and then it doesn’t.

Whenever I reach maximum frustration, after about four launches and force quits, I restart. This works. ZBrush doesn’t always open the first time after a reboot, but it does run.