i learned a important thing, even in zbrush you should save and know what your system can handle. this is the third rescuable attept at laying out quez’s structure. the trouble im getting is the hands and the head and the scale feather sceme that i have in mind of weather to do it with zspheres or make them seprate and then try to attach them[would work if i had the tools to make a motion and physics proccess for them. ] hmm ive looked at the hand threads and sphere threads but its almost like its gonna be extreamly hard to do what i want with just zspheres. if theres a way to model diferent parts with just zspheres kinda like if you would cut up the mesh and then detail it all and then stick it back together. im fine with projecting detail its just if i want to get a working model in other programs like maya, id have have to concider a few things, southerns vids up at pixologics website really help, so i got the idea of making the head and hands seprate and finding a way to stick it back together just in zbrush because i cant afford any expensive main programs, im still in college, but man im eager to learn this wonderful peice of innovation.
Well it’s always up to you, but it can all be done with zspheres and poseable. Since this is where you chose to do it, it will be a great learnning exercise that will help you understand structure for any character in any application.
Do you have a sketch? Perhaps then I could give you some tips. Based on the zsphere structure so far you will have some issues. Take a look at the ferret/lemur thing in the zsphere thread, where people had bend issues. It’s easily fixed if you do it now. I’m referring to the torso, but you will also have issues with the toes, ankles, knees and possibly shoulders later on with the current structure.
Just trying to help before you goto far.
If you can post a sketch, and I’ll draw some zspheres on it for you to see what might work best. 
thanks for helping me. you are right on the zsphere structure, all of those areas have problems and more areas. i really dont mind doing things diffrenently or over im paitent, after all i do want to learn and i truly apreicate the help. this monster will have several protruding scales on it sort of like a iquana so then the issue comes with to make each one zpheres to animate later. ususaly things will just come and i research, ask questions, examine the approaces carefully and think some more wether it be listening to music, inspired by things, or totataly random. All of the zbrush art inspires me so much on here that it in part drives me right now to achive admerable artwork of my own. The reason why i havent scetched out things of this yet is because ive got remenants of carpal tunnel syndrome[surgery took care of most of it in my dominant hand but im waiting for the other one to see if something would work better] , so there was a period in my short life where i just stoped scetching because it was too painful. I am however working on regaining my traditional abilitys in that aspect. i love zbrush because it is easy on my hands and allows me to have sorta therapy for my hand cordination. I will try to make a drawing rather than letting it sit in my memory. i also want to share the findings of this model to the zbrush comunity, ive got some materals from this that id like to share so i should probably upload here to save space. thank you pliou for teaching me how to project details, its really really gonna help alot because i want to create geometric scales on the surface for when i paint the model for a grunge effect.
Cool man. We’ll be here. By the way, have you thought about getting a thought tablet? They really free up the hands.
Ha, yes that would be nice =P
I havent been able to work on it as much, and im still trying to scetch/conceptulaze inbetween my 3 days a week 8 hour a day college education. i just purchased a educational version of photoshop, and in a month am going to purchase a educational version of flash… they have the latest unlimited version of maya which is a student version for about 500usd… something i cannot afford right now but i will probably be looking at a main modeling and animation program in the future. i am thinking of after i get the flash program to put together a flash project of the proccess of this. the next post will be materials for the zbrush comunity to use. Southern’s modeling video gave me a few ideas of just making the head first, basicly i want to encorperate the iguana into the creature and a tribal, grungy,savage, sophisticated, powerful look to it[ a little crazed look too] the head is being fleshed out now.
ive been working on it, made a new zsphere model
He will actually have two seperate forms, a more slightly down to earth huminoid/reptile appearance[ he belongs to the dragon like race called the drade in my mmo im working on, one of the bosses[crazy guy would not to fight him without being prepared]. the feet can change, i know it may seem like a generic form but the details will be immense hopefully if i can pull it off with my limited skills. please any advice will help, i really want to learn and do better than my forest scene. The chalange will be maintaining and making a good topography because zbrush is all i have and the level of detail in the concept would call for getting the right stuff down first, thats it, no maya or 3ds or anything just pure zbrush lol. and i still have to do the mayan pyramid full scale…
im still a newbie at 3d so this is a really rough guidline, im looking forward to version 3 or zbrush to clear some things up
Attachments
Well it’s a start. Need to see more to help you. If you intend to pose with the zspheres you might want to return to the ‘Eternal Zsphere’ thread and look at the rigs posted by people to get good motion.
i have no maya or anything 3d except for zbrush[do have poser 5 x.x but its so troublesome lol] what do you need to see, and yes it sucks at motion, im still learning so 3d is my newest craft ive undertaken. Zspheres are the only things i can so far do to build up a mesh form so im kinda limited and its like that to texture because the guy that im working with on my mmo, we might get motionbuilder for motion, so if i could just get good topography and a displacement map for the engine that were building[wish you could export zmats, it would be really handy for the engine] it would go alot smother. This model is going to be really complex, i havent figured out a way to get the feather scales in zspheres because it would take like 100 or less zpheres for the protruding scales, but if its possible to mask things and get geometry then i really dont need all that in zspheres[theory can be applyed to wings we were talking about]. this guy has iquana like ridge on its back to its tail.
if i could get zsketch pad to work then i could get a concept drawing down to post
thanks for helping me jason its really apericated
Y.J.
Your in good hands with Jason Belec giving you solid advice. I’m very new to owning zbrush and his help with zspheres has been without a doubt the key to get me up and moving quickly with a decent first model. The Eternal Zspheres thread is loaded with info… though wish it had a cliff notes version considering the volume it contains. He gave me a few quick pointers on my thread here… http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=39892&highlight=AngelJ
as you will see at the last page I got better in leaps and bounds with the his info. in a rather short amount of time. Maybe it will help you. Keep up the work on the goal and look forward to seeing more.
Well Yari, I have always found MB to be one of the best tools available, even as far back as when it was called Filmbox. I have used it alot over the years to do things quickly and creatively and MB has always excelled. I once did 27 variations of a scene for a Director in a week. No way it could have been done with anything else a the time. I mean, this fella’s mind was wandering! I do all pre-vis in MB, base motions, etc., and even use it to mix and match the work of others or just edit the work. Eventually everything gets dumped out to Maya to have lighting and shaders attached with Liquid and then out to the renderer (Renderma, Pixie, 3Delight, etc.).
You being a student, the price for MB is stuning, considering what Autodesk jacked the fee upto for the business customer! It’s like getting Shake, another practically free program considering the original cost could have bought a nice new small car!
AngelJ, thank you. Glad you have found value. Your work is indeed improving.
Y.J.
Forgot to mention that I do indeed feel your pain in regards to only having Zbrush… and minimal time spent with blender and gamespace. Building meshes with Zbrush is what attracted me to this product especially after viewing the price!! I don’t mind moving vertices and such around but prefer having a bulk mold to work with that zspheres do so well. Would be nice to learn other tools since i’m a traditional artist trying to just get into this 3d stuff. Though the time and cost it takes … is what kept me from getting into this on my own long ago. Zbrush was something that I couldn’t pass on once I saw how innovative it was and geared to the artist.
Jason B.- No thank you my friend!
Gotta love this forum.
Yeah, i see what your saying, you both are awesome and im truly greatful for the help. I want to learn 3d, its something that will be with me for the rest of my life now, im deadset on getting this under control and im honestly prepared for the long hours. I do have a tendancy to get way over my head into things but its part of the learning process because what i do will and can be applyed to future projects. its 3 seprate models its going to take alot of time and its hard becuse i have such limited knoledge on 3d but i just feel i have to get this done, the will power is def there, its just im learning. i could find a way to send you the model jason, im geared twards learning, i dont care if i have to get 30 diff models before i get it right. perhaps i should just start on the pyramid now hmm…
This is huge its gonna take some time theres no way around that and its gonna be blazing hard, like… 30m polys alltogether or more or less, depends on my main system which im going to instail the new version on which has a 64bit and 1 gig. laptop has 1024 system memory and intel duo core or is it anthlon now =S[funny story behind how the mother board got replaced]. at any rate i dont have much room but im trying to make the best of things.ive got probably hundreds of concepts i need to make still because of mmo since ill pretty much be doing the bulk of the modeling it looks like. whole landscapes, planets[yeah hopefully whole planets XD god i got so much work to do o.o], chars, monsters, bosses, secondary items, the icons for all this and armors and anything that goes 3d. im looking forward to it though because its a huge learning enviorment and if we get a company sponser then perhaps i could still survive while doing this all day[what fun]…
In contemplating these things, i feel i should wait for it to continue this, although i will still be trying to get the first one to work to get the concept out of my head and on to something truly tangable. I want to learn 3d, it is my new art passion in life, it is the right course to take that i feel within. i should practice sketching on paper agian alongside continuing to strenghen the amount of art induced stress on my wrists. Ive got to make the best of this liablily twards the work enviorment and ive been inspired by alexia’s thread to get back to traditional more[hope thats how her name is spelled] im waiting to install z3 on my destop as well as the other software i own[ps. flash, dreamweaver, acidms,ect] dont worry even though its moving along slowly it will get done, all three models.
Ah, i finnaly got a obsidion glass look[ cant wait for z3], tell me what you think, i think its good to release this mat to the forum users on here =), this is for his daggers which will be long but they may appear odd when i upload them because they are not really the chipped look of normal obsidion, the drade have been using obsidion for eons, so the crafting of obsidion has had a radical, mechanized and somewhat more streamlining process although it does look fine if you want to actually make a blade chiped. anyway enjoy and id love you to pm on what youve used it for.
thanks for the help everyone, I searched much of this fourm especially the eternal z spheres thread. Everything was modeled in zbrush from primitives and put toghether in a zsphere formation[ that was the hardest part]. i would like to find out how to make certian components on the dagger[s] diff materials, perhaps its possible with marker master. and the image im uploading will be branded with a educational version watermark, because i dont have the money to buy the professional version and it serves as a watermark none the less. i even have obsidian materials i made, z is tricky for sss but it is possible the mat that i posted here is a attempt at it in z2. i know it needs more tweaks but i just wanted to post it since im very proud of it. tell me if you want to see the zsphere model, its an adaptive skin/insert meshes and connecter meshes.
tell me what you think
There was somewhere a famous tutorial of a “Sword” showing use of Texture Master (or Projection Master) have you seen it?
Was it the one in the startup menu in z2 ?
But I don’t remember where is it 
thanks, That does help, and is intresting but i dont have any external prog…
on a side note im trying to sketch the two monster forms in zsketchpad.
ill have to search for how to hide and unhide groups to color each one.
thanks