A game review site - rates this very high
which brought me here -
then I see this doesnt export cleanly to
a file 3d max can read with textures.
Duh… how can it be any good for games then?
what gives here?
Cindy
Hi Cindy
I asked Pixologic something like that some days ago. You can see it in here: http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000009&p=6
Bonne chance… 
And ZBrush can be very powerful for games…
ZBrush has a magnificent modelling sistem, easy but powerful.(You can learn how to model a realistic human head in 15minutes in Z…really!)and you still can export the models to 3DSMax, Lightwave or other 3D package because in ZBrush you can export to .dxf(almost every packages accept this file type)or to .obj…so you can export the ZBrush models to Max and do great games but I agree with you…WE WANT TO EXPORT TO .MAX!!! 
thanks for reply.
But I came here to TEXTURE Models mainly.
Im also looking at deep paint and maxon
paint.
Why should I bother with this zbrush then?
( Oh - the review raised red flags too.
It raved about games - but then I saw they
tested the work in cinema 4d. Now that may be
a good app - but* no one * owns it - or uses
it for real games.
Games = MAX. simple. )
thanks
Cindy
3D Max is capable of exporting and importing DXF files, am I right? So does ZBrush. Which means that you can model and UV map your object in 3D Max, export it to ZBrush, texture it using TextureMaster, and then wrap the texture onto your object again in Max.
If you are having specific problems with the process, please give us more information so that we can help you out. I don’t have Max, myself, but I know that there are other people in here who do, and I think you’ll find us to be a very friendly and helpful group of people if you give us a chance.
thanks for your generous reply .
I am no expert myself, but I believe dxf
does not retain any textures with it. so
no go in that format, I’m afraid. ( anybody
know for sure? )
I will try the OBJ converter mentioned
above and hope for the best.
Does anyone know if Z rotoscopes?
( Ie: you can import a photo to use to
“pose” for a new model" That;s a really
important feature to me.
( also being able to texture with real
photos is a HUGE plus. )
thanks so much
Love,
Cindy
See my reply to your other post about rotoscoping.
beguining to say, there are REALLY few softwares which support directly Max format. I think mainly those everything to everything espensive convertors like PolyTrans or 3d Exploration (cheaper if I am not wrong)
read all these is you’re really in game-creation-problems. All this is discovered by me through pain and tears, nobody told me a clue in its day.
dxf has no support for textures.There’s habware and other good plugginsfor obj import/export intoto/ outside max.They’re free. 3d exploration supports obj, x, cob, every format, plus MAX native format, with some issues in this last one. Cheap for a game company, expensive for an individual.
dfx dont, but Obj does. It supports UV mapping, smoothing normals, no practical vertex count limit, etc.
Zbrush supports textures and uvmapping. It supports importing mapping data in objs as well as exporting it in the obj. It only flips the uvs I think but you can fix it flipping uvs again outside, or flipping the texture.
You can vertex paint an object or use texture master and paint a texture over your object. Producing the result of Deep Paint 3d. Well, there is a small issue to tell you all, the smoothing normals view is not yet but i think will be for 1.5 version, wich is available free for all the people who buy this 1.23b version. Also render is going to improve although already is much better than deep paint, in my opinion (as all said here by me ;D)
Deep Paint 3d can’t model. Can’t make morphing targets. I have worked for comercial videogames (well, just one) and this morphing targets are cool for any intro avi, as you usually need a zoom shot with human face expressions. These morphed heads go to Max to produce an expression anim.
Besides, you have the abbility of making interface 3d-like elements (menu bars, icons, etc) whith just intuitive painting. I know what I talk about if I tell you how much would you spend in a an adobe like software to make those 3d like UI elements (is always that way in games, u know) and how quick are done with this.
Its pulling tool is much like a magnet or Max soft selecetions, but more intuitive. You add bumps easily, no matter if you want them real 3d bumps or a bump TGA added to render those bumps. (dx engines are beguining support it if I’m not wrong)
In my opinion like it is now is a tool useful for low poligon stuff for ingamem low pol characters, but not as useful as Deep Paint 3d, for me that is also a great tool. For high polygon count texturing…I think at the end…depending on your gearing you may prefer Deep or Zbrush.
I have deeply studied pdf Deep Paint 3d manuals from its site, as played a lot with a demo they use to have for download. Don’t if they improved it, however, and you cannot test you own models with that demo, however.
For low pol, maybe you would prefer Deep3d, but it has its issues, if what some people at forums tell is true. But…with good uv mapping knowledge, that is managing uv mapping thing in Lith Unwrapper or Max uv window, you don’t really need texture weapons (uv addon to Deep) , and once again, you perhaps could do almost teh same with Painter 3d, which I don’t know if still sold alone, or only bundled with Poser 4. If so, you’ll have it plus Poser.
But if you , like me are interested in more than having premade models, and wish to create your own, unique game characters, you may prefer to model them in Max in your company, then export the obj (there’s a free pluggin which works cool) and paint, scrathc, remodel, and whatever , in Zbrush. Zbrush cost you even less than the Poser 4+ Painter 3d option. In my opinion gives much creative freedom.
But take care non of these solutions is magic; you’ll end up to often painting your game texture over a 2d template, and updating in a 3d package or if you’re lucky to be in a company clever enough to buy 3d Exploration viewer, you’ll have a vertical mosaic in your win desktop, one side adobe 2d texture, painting over it, the other side with the resized window of 3d Exploration refreshing changes just hitting ctrl+save in adobe.
In my opinion, Deep Paint 3d is a great solution, very powerful. Very expensive too, don’t forget it. I hope they lower the price, I like to have several tools for each tasks, as games is a hard thing to create.
But is not magic.
Zbrush is -in my humble opinion, Iknow some one is going to kill me, sorry, I need to be sincere with some one who may find the sam eprobs I was I year ago- not as good as deep paint 3d for low polygon modelling, till some imporvements are pending to come in 1.5 version, if I am not wrong. How ever, it allow you to paint game models, which is a lot. Some retouch will be needed, but as always, now 3d painter let the model perfect. Zbrush is absolutely great for game interfaces, which is a big percentage of game stuff.Hope you know it. You make those things in a fraction of the time needed in adobe+whatever the 3d package. In that I see no competition. As a modeller, it does not suit me at all for beguining a character from scratch, but for modifying characters, which almost which you’ll make all the time (I have see ppl making a woman from a rude man model ;D) is good, more quick in organic shapes modifying than max.
If you came looking for a make it all kit for videogames here, that is not Zbrush. There’s not such a tool, however, for games. I used regularly a dozen of freeware tools plus some bought ones in our game production. Max is near that all in one combo, but no 3d painting, for example.
INMHO, Zbrush is a cool tool to have, an invaluable weapon. Not the main one, but good for many game specific tasks.
I even think for hi polygon stuff, press renders, morphs and creatures creation for game intros, is a think that really worth its low price.
I know every body in this forum think ZB is the greatest tool ever, but I have used lots of applications during years, and under a lot of pressure, I don’t really thing there’s anyone magic. There are useful ones for specific tasks, others which aren’t at all. This is useful, and how, for a good number of game art creation, but not for all as I don’t believe in magic or miracles. 
Have a look at the 2d-3d art from Southern, Pixolator, and many others. It’s power in illustration is very high, though the problem is that in games that’s only for press renders, and perhaps the package illustration, or the loading and splash screens typical in games.
In one of these days games, you’ll need to make models in Max with 1500 polys or so, and work a lot at vertex level with lots of precission, more than anything. Still, ZB+ a script added called Testure Master, can help you making a basic 3d painting of that low polygon model, and I tell you: you will need too retouch it a lot in adobe later on, but then you will know where details are laying down, not blindly paint over an unwrapped wireframe bmp mesh.Also will need a lot of checking with a 3d package or viewer whic support smoothing normals, as it is the key of good visualizing of so low pol stuff.
For that low price that is a lot. Deep 3d will produce easily a work with less retouch needed in 2d, but I think it does not let you paint with a lower than 2 pixels wide brush over your model. That’s bad. Games use 512 pixels or 256 pixels wide textures. You’ll need to paint at vertex level.
That all is for Pc Games like RTCW. For console (xbox, game cube,ps2 etc) that’s talking about 4.000 , 5000 , even 8000 polys models, depending on the game and on the console, scenaries, etc.
So for those games, being Zbrush a high end geared product, is more sensible then the buying of Zbrush than lower end game market.
Hey, if you asked me (no one ask me as their in danger of reciev these short responses) I would say to the Boss: “Hey, man, go buy : Zbrush, Deep Paint 3d, Max 4+character Studio, Photoshop, 3d Exploration viewer-convertor download free Lith Unwrap for mapping and some other free for organic modelling, and we’re all done. Then give me a few years to learn tha all. ;DDD”
Hey, sorry, I like to play jokes, I’m a bit crazy. But that’s a really serious combo for game production…
Some of the freebies I think if u’re a lot of patient can even be more powerful fo rsome tasks… :
Npherno mapper, Lith Unwrap, Metasequoia (once it come possible to buy outside Japan) , Pixia (3d painter best wacom stroke response ) , Wings 3d for model construction, etc.
Hi Cindy. I’ve just worked up a tutorial to show how to texture using Photographs. You can find it by clicking this link.
Although you can’t try the exact method out with the demo, it does show what you’re looking for in action.
Wow - drawingtroll, what a great and comprehensive post. Thanks a lot!
I will try and absorb all your excellent
observations and experience.
Cindy
Hey aurick - that’s fantastic!
thanks a bunch.
Cindy.
cindy its good that you wonder and its good to ask questions to see if your money is worth spending…you couldnt find a single person in this forum that would tell you that it wasnt worth the money…zbrush has alot of new features unknown to gaming artists and professionals… it the opinion of myself and others that this is the best program for texturing and modeling on the market today… not just at this forum but around the world…so dont worry about the money just come aboard and well help you achieve whatever you want…good luck…
Hi Cindy.
I use Max and ZBrush. Although I can’t remember the last time I used Max, and now I’m too lazy to pull the computer out and screw in the dongle, so I’ll let it gather dust till I’m ready. I’m planning on making a ZBrush to Max tutorial, but I’m kinda busy doing other ZBrush stuff at the mo.
Check out these excellent links in the forum mainly by dOb, who unfortunatly has run off with some young hottie and has never been seen again!
Exporting Mapping Coordinates
More Exporting and Mapping questions!
Exporting to MAX etc
Object export
I’ve got to point out that you’ll be out of luck when it comes to exporting models with the ZBrush demo!
Upham
PS. What’s wrong with this forum? What do you think needs improving, and can you give an example of a better forum?
Cindy I don’t know if this is what you’re talking about, but here’s some photo Matte work from an image I’m working on…
This is a photo, inserted, shading ehanced, and painted around in ZBrush…
Cindy I have some thoughts also, but not the time to post extensive here. If you’d like one more opinion, feel free to contact me directly.
a pleasure to help. You will recieve lots of good advices in this forum …actually is the most friendly I ever met. Add that to Zbrush features…And this is also unexpensive
ooops…didn’t check what I wrote, you’ll find some mistakes like :
“as deep paint 3d for low polygon modelling”
I meant low poligon models texturing-3d painting. As you cannot model any way with Deep, I was thinking in texturing.
and “no 3d painter leaves model perfect” …instead of “now” . I meant at least for games there’s needed 2d retouch whatever the 3d painter used.
argh…also said “You’ll need to paint at vertex level.” i meant pixel level.
well, some were making the opposite sense of what I had in mind. I write too quickly. There must be more mistakes, but sure you catch the idea. You’re gonna collect more info. SOme people will say opposite of what I say or modified visions of it. And that is great. As you’ll perform a complete and balanced vision of the available software you have for gaming and how Zbrush can help there.
I wont write anymore, I promise.
Yes, it certainly is a friendly place. Thanks all.
But I’m wondering how hard this Z brush is
too learn!?
I’ve looked at a couple of the script
tutorials that come with the demo -
and I’m still waaaaaaaaayyyyy confused
about using Z brush.
Love,
Cindy
also - most of them are just kind of doing
the same type of head over and over -
are there other script tutorials anyone
would recommend - to get a good overview?
thanks so much!
Couple of assorted questions please?
-
Is Z brush best for making heads only?.
( I note a couple posts are using poser
bodies ) -
Has anybody done THEIR OWN head with
z brush? ( using photos ) or a similar
project.
thanks so much
L,
Cindy
My Space Pirates image http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003199 and my Spell image http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002172 were done using full bodies and I didn’t use poser. (I can’t afford it right now). Everything was done within ZBrush.
Go to the quicklinks section and you’ll be able to find tutorials and scripts on all sorts of different types of modelling techniques which don’t involve heads.
I’d also recommend going through the “picnic” tutorial that comes with ZBrush.