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Art Skill?

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#32

I wasn’t sure I wanted to post in this thread but i think i’d like to make a point and get back to what Moweddp was asking.

I think what he’s calling “art skill” is just skill with traditional mediums like pencil/paper, paint, clay, wood.

I definately agree that traditional art skills translate well into the digital relm quite well. I’ve heard it said that the computer is just an “expensive paintbrush”, which I agree.

The reason the ability to draw well, paint well, sculpt well are traits studios like to see is that it implies a level of artistic competance. Its the fastest way to judge talent/ability/competence.

Drawing, painting, sculpting hones ones ability to “see” the world. Your also developing your fine motor skills which i think 80% of ppl use a tablet in zbrush, or should. The ability to really understand what your looking at is a skill often overlooked and takes a life time to develop. Just as its said “to really know something, is to teach it” i’d say to really understand something visually would be to reproduce it. This is where things like life drawing, painting and sculpting the world around you can only improve the work you create in the computer when you use these same skills of visual analysis.

Someone who can draw or sculpt well should pick up zbrush rather quickly.

#33

love threads like this. just a matter of time until someone gets fired up (although, i don’t think this thread has reached the point for someone to be upset).

#34

spaz8, thank you :wink:

as for “learning to see”: last evening I stood in a parking lot for 5 or 10 minutes … maybe people thought I was a derelict or in a trance, but I was looking at a scene, branches against a subtly colored sunset, analyzing the elements and thinking how to paint something like that

a cool moment in my teenage years was when my Mom checked out “My Name is Asher Lev” by Chaim Potok for me to read … there is a scene when young Asher is sitting in someone’s office, looking at the raindrops flowing down the window, thinking how to draw them, and I thought “wow, there are other people like me” (a big fan of rain trails on car windows and colored lights on wet streets)

Moweddp, I’m starting to think that YES you should learn to draw reasonably well, at least so that you can do concept sketches

don’t reinvent the wheel – see how other people have translated 3d into 2d drawings and paintings – learn some tricks and elements from them – don’t worry about making exact copies, think of it more as doing cover versions of songs

if you know how to maintain your computer, how to install software, and how to learn software apps by reading manuals or the help system or Googling, you probably don’t need to be in the computer track at school

it’s good that you have a career goal as an organizing principle :+1:

but of course, don’t limit yourself to learning just what you need for monsters and environments, etc. – learn more than you need, according to your own tastes – spend some time looking at galleries that are outside of your main interests – maybe you can bring some new flavors to the kitchen

however the official training turns out, remember that you can and should add your own studies throughout life, including now – don’t turn it into drudgery, though :wink:

and … don’t neglect your social and physical health :wink:

#35

Havran:

man, this thread got philosophical fast :lol:
Don’t see whats so amusing about it? Perhaps you think that philosophy is a useless invention of man, that serves no other purpose then to complexify, beyond understanding, any given situation it is applied to?

1stbrother :

someone gets fired up (although, i don’t think this thread has reached the point for someone to be upset).
If by “fired up” you are implying - an irrational outburst in the midst for a battle of supremacey, you are wrong to have applied it here.

There is a battle however, the battle is for the right and proper ideas.Because it is waged on publicly accesible media, the battle becomes of great importance: since it is with such simple beginnings that conclusions form and propogate in to culture - of life - of education.

Furthermore, this is a thread that coveres a very important and fundumental qestion to the artist - scientist - philosopher - What is knowledge and what is the proper way to attain it[color=DimGray].

For these reasons, and the fact that ideas are the life-blood of human action, I take ideas very seriously. The fact that you have no yet realised the errors that have been commited, and how destructive they are, is exactly what I was trying to avoid. - I suggest you think again. Kircho
#36

oh now, our tenth-grader was asking questions about craft … no need to drag memes and cosmoconceptions in at this stage

#37

moweddp…

Keep going kid, you’re starting out great. Don’t let some of the pontificators scare you off. nothing, and I mean nothing, will do more to advance you than practice. Learn to draw, definately, but also learn the technology. For pure artistic release, drawing skills can lay your foundation. For business, my Bosses don’t pay six figure incomes to guys like me because I can draw. They want people that can learn the new programs and streamline processes. Sorry, but that’s the reality of it.

Kircho, , lighten up Dude, for someone that’s only Twenty One (and with all the vast life experience that brings), you’ve got allot of anger issues. The only lesson I see you’ve taught our young friend here, is that ‘He who shouts the loudest, wins’.

Life’s the journey man, NOT the destination.

#38

just for the record I’m not angry - JPalmer you applied the wrong archetype ,“Dude”. Secondly I suggest you read - actually read it - the progression of this thread. Your conclusion - “The only lesson I see you’ve taught our young friend here, is that 'He who shouts the loudest, wins.” - is false.

Kircho

#39

Orient yourself on results. If you see a piece of work you like, go look who made it, contact him/her and I am sure you will get an answer which is worth a lot to you. Judge advice against results, not by words.

Good luck!
Lemo

#40

I was starting to think that Kircho was a little full of himself, but I guess I should give him credit for his sense of humor …

#41

Hehe…You beat me too it, I had this prepared lastnight :

Dear Havran and Mukkinese I wish you a joyfull christmas(sic)
and a happy new year(sic). I hope you enjoy my present.
Yours Sincerely,
Kircho
[SnHnSn.jpg]

#42

:lol:finally the lines of communication are open; a picture says a thousand words:lol:

Happy Boxing Day!

#43

this doesn’t seem as eloquent as your last few posts.

#44

LOL! I’ve been enjoying my Christmas and will continue to enjoy the rest of the holidays (indeed, the rest of my life), thank you Kircho, I wish you the same.

Do you really think what has been said here is evil?

#45

Yes I really - jus so its clear - really, really - think that what you have said here is evil. Anything against life, against man - man as he should be - is evil.

Kircho

#46

Let’s please keep the discussion civil and on the topic of the original post. If outbursts and finger-pointing continue, we’ll have to start deleting posts. (Which is something we really, really hate so please don’t force us into it. ;))

#47

…something we really, really hate so…
Hehe…Ok we are definently off topic - but - uncivil and unruly, never :smiley:

#48

Oh how confused I am right now! :frowning:

I just wanted to know if drawing skill, as far as pencil/pen on a peice of paper and how well I could draw, would effect my 3D art. I have looked into some things, and realized many high end 3D artists draw there pictures from two views, and upload it onto their computer, and import it into maya/3DS Max/zbrush, and use it as reference.

This leads me to a new question, where will I get my reference from if I can’t draw my own reference, and, is it easy to, let’s say sculp the face I have in my mind without a drawing as reference to mold points to in 3DS Max or Maya (the two programs I plan on using to start models, and use zbrush to detail)?

Thanks, Dan (First time I am using real name! lol)

#49

Well, you can use photo-reference or even another artists work - just for practice (though I would stress -just for practice, try and respect another artists copyright). There are many sources of non-copyrighted photo-reference online try Googling for some.

As others have suggested, putting some time in learning how to draw, wouldn’t be wasted effort. This doesn’t mean that you have to take that skill to a photo-realiastic level, many artists are ‘cartoonists’ some are ‘photo-realists’ most fall somewhere in-between these extremes. In fact I would suggest starting your modeling with simple cartoon-like images.

As you become more and more comfortable with the medium you can add levels of detail until you find what suits you.

Not all 3D artists draw their images from two views and load them as reference, I’m sure many start from simple concept sketches/doodle and others (who are confident with the medium) will, on occasion, just dive straight in and ‘doodle’ in 3D.

Don’t forget you can save anything you do in Zbrush as an image and use that as reference for further refining your ideas - don’t think everything you do is ‘all or nothing’. Treat Zbrush like any other medium, you can play around with as many ideas as you like before commiting to one. Save the elements of your work that you like and discard what you don’t like.

#50

I for one am glad this thread got back on track, and hope that Moweddp found some useful advice here.

But of course I would not object to separate philosophical threads that focused on other particular issues, as long as people took care to discuss ideas and not get personal.

It’s clear that some of us may have such different worldviews that we have a difficult time understanding each other at present, and perhaps might never understand each other, but vive la différence

And there might be cases where something is obvious to someone, but they might have some difficulty expressing it to other people, exactly because it seems so self-evident to oneself.

But maybe after some discussion, we might find out that we actually agree about some things more than we first expected, although we express them differently … and in areas where we don’t agree, we might still learn something from each other.

Please let Moweddp have this thread for his questions – if anyone feels like responding to this post or raising other topics, I believe a new thread would be appropriate.

#51

I just wanted to know if drawing skill, as far as pencil/pen on a peice of paper and how well I could draw, would effect my 3D art. I have looked into some things, and realized many high end 3D artists draw there pictures from two views, and upload it onto their computer, and import it into maya/3DS Max/zbrush, and use it as reference

Dan, some artists here work like that with 2d images for reference. Not all and not all on every project. That is just one way to do it…

FouadB posted yesterday I believe a work in progress…and he appeared to have a reference pic in the background. If you are needing exact scale and stuff a reference pic might be the answer you need.

For me personally, I have always drawn…working with zbrush enhanced my drawings a good bit in my opinion…(I still have a long ways to go though but that is ok). I don’t think you ever max out your personal potentional in any medium…you always get better over time, but I don’t think I will ever truly be totally happy with anything I do, no matter whether I progress or not…and that to me is a healthy thing.

Practice does not necessarily make you perfect but you will get better, and better and better etc…by practicing.

Have fun and don’t make work out of what should be a labor of love. And when working in other mediums, I always think in terms of how I would accomplish a said task in Zbrush…and alot of the techniques for me translate well into those other areas.

Fun thread:+1:

Ron
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