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Art Skill?

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#1

Hey, I was thinking about starting up and trying to model some stuff and learn the programs and such to become a good modeler, but, I can’t draw on paper very well. I can draw decent, but nothing good at all, and pictures I see of model make people look almost REAL. Now is making a model really that much art, as it is knowing how to use the program and just knowing what a nose looks like, and shaping it like that. If I try to draw a nose, comes out funky looking, if I model it and have all the diminensions I feel maybe I can have a better understanding and it would come out better. I was hoping an experienced and skilled modeler who can’t draw for his life would step up and tell me I can do this regardless of my artistic ability. I have some great ideas for models after I learn enough to do it, just hoping my art ability will allow it! :frowning:

#2

“you can teach a monkeyhow to use a 3d program” I bet I heard my professors say that a 1000 times =)
Maya, zbrush, or any 3d program is just a tool.
Sure, you can bring referance into a 3d program and basically copy it. But trust me, its not going to look right until you understand what your copying.
I dont think you have to be an extremely skilled artist. But a good understanding of the human form is very important.
I started learning 3d a little over a year ago. At that time, I considered myself to be a decent 2d artist (nothing professional), since then, ive been working on both my 2d and 3d. Ive feel like each skill has helped the other. One thing I would deffinately recomend is learning anatomy. Grab an anatomy book at the local bookstore, and start memorizing the names of the bones and muscles, and start making tons of sketches.

My advise would be to start working on both 3d and 2d, and undertsand that its going to take time to progress.

Good luck to ya! =)

#3

I agree, 3D programs are just tools.
You have to learn how to walk before you start running.
Good luck.
:wink:

#4

I’m new to Z-brush, coming from a Special make-up effects background. so Sculpture is a alot of what i do.

when I got the program I created things that looked like things i created when I was first learning how to sculpt. VERY similar. I saw this, and relized that its alot like sculpting, because it looked so much like what i started out with so many years ago I new it was similar…just totaly diffrent for me. sculpting with a pen is pretty wacky at first if you come from a traditional sculpture background.

But this didnt take me as long to get down, I quickly started to pick up on this new “tool” I was useing to sculpt with.

the fact that I have some knowladge of anatomy and the face is what helped me, if I didnt know any of that then id still be at stage one.
so my real world sculpting definatly helped me use Z-brush to a point where I can actually make something that looks like something.

but I also noticed that my modeling also resembled my Sketches a LOT, so if you can draw, or if you can sculpt…then you should pick up Z-brush fairly quickly. I think if you where totally new to art and anatomy right off the bat things will probably go alot slower.

So I agree 100%, Z-brush is just another “tool” I use to do my art with. weather its a sculpting tool, pencil, or my wacom I’m really just being an artist and these “tools” I use allow me to do so.

#5

You can do it. Art is a myth. Art is Math. In fact the very best art in the world is usually more efficiently communicated using a Venn diagram. All alternate opinions are conspiracy. :slight_smile:

#6

I do not agree that art is a myth.
It’s 10% talent and 90% hard work.
But that 10% is what separates the best from the rest.

:wink:

#7

Since I work in 3d, my 2d drawing skill It’s going better and better :slight_smile:

#8

I think it’s a bit more than 10% to be honest…

But agree that any piece of software is just a tool to create with, the rest is down to the individuals skill…

#9

The flower does not speak

Antimorph I'm so appriciative of your words I think I could kiss you! :cool: More correctly however, Art should be treated as a Science - subject to logic and the Law of Causality/Identity - In both forms as a craft and an emotion-evoker. It is important that it is so, for in what other way can a man experiance his ideals and asperation in a single glimpse? - and conversely, have them utterly destroyed and twisted? What do you mean by talent darko ? Talent as it applies here is an enhanced mental capacity - for Art it will consist of a close to photographic memory - And an ability to analyse and integrate data with ease and great accuracey, this applies both to ones craft(methodologically) and ones 'emotion-evokivness'( philosophically). ( If one is dilligent one is bound to reach similar qualities, to that of the 'gifted artist', but in a longer peroid of time.) -------- Moweddp, your inhability to draw comes, at first, from a lack of methodology/logic/math and secondarily, as a result, a lack of proper knowledge of your subject. Not because there is some inhate force disabling you from drawing with a pencil. (unless ofcourse you have paraplegia) It is not a simple task to reproduce a 3d figure on a 2d canvas - one must translate perspective - volume - shading - + - on a 2d medium. Enter 3d graphics and most of the hardships will dissapear, you are faced with one problem only - the reproduction of volume. At this point, for that reason, and because Zbrush does it so very well - I can say that - " Yes you, most anyone for that matter, if they know the basics of Zbrush and are able to view reality, can create 3d-X ".....I was that 'anyone' when I started with Zbrush. The problem, as you are bound to find out, is that to produce a "nose" in 3d, even though the process is very much simplified in Zbrush, you will require a proper methodology - For looking and For doing - to create it, not only accuratley but also consistantly- and more importantly to reach a level of creative autonomy - proffesionalism. Note - lots of people tend to overate knowledge of anatomy - I recommend against it as a first step.( Proportions is just for starters) -------- " The Zen Master(sic) glances down at the younge monk sitting before him...there is silence..." Do you wish to ask me any questions younge one(sic)" he exclaims, awaiting the oppourtunity to dispatch with orders for a new pot of rosemary tea. " Masta ," reservedly the younge monk begins " what is to be my first step then Masta?". The Zen Master squints wearily ( sitting in the lotus postion half his life has led to arthritis in his knees) and begins to stroke his long white beard in show of satisfaction for his younge apprentice, " Take your donkey and one weeks supplies to [ZeeBeeCee](http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=31071) next you must visit the all powerfull and wise Andrew Loomis.....Lastly remember this saying, for it is the key to your success - The Flower does not speak." Good Luck, Kircho
#10

practice makes perfect but i’m not totally convinced that can be applied to art (3D or other).

i don’t see talent as just a jumpstart before those without catch up by trying hard.

#11

Draughtsmanship is a skill, like any other. Anyone who can write can learn to draw and draw competantly. Talent may give some a start, but it’s attitude that rules with skills; if you practice your skill it will improve -simple as that.

It’s not the method that makes one artist more memorable than another, but ‘creativity’, something indefinable and subjective that ‘strikes a chord’ with the viewer. What one person sees as ‘creative’ leaves another cold.

Lots of people will give lots of (sometimes conflicting) advice, but take it all with a pinch of salt and do what you really enjoy doing, if you are lucky you will find others who enjoy the same things and appreciate your ‘creativity’.

In my opinion, the two best ‘rules’ for becoming an exceptional artist are; work at your art everyday and treat that work like play.

#12

i think we need to define drawing and being an artist.

#13

#14

:smiley: Haha great toon…

#15

Moweddp

As you can already discern from this string, when you throw out the word ‘Art’, it evokes many, many responses and opinions.

As for my ‘2 cents’, I have always felt that Art equated to a vision, and an Artist was someone that could, though whatever means they chose, convey that vision in a moving or thought provoking fashion.

BUT…… If I may try to interpret the question you asked, I do not believe that one necessarily needs to be able to ‘draw’ in order to ‘model’. Just as someone need not be skilled at painting in order to sculpt.

Having said that, I believe that Zbrush is a tool that is so remarkably intuitive to how most of us wish to create, that it can unleash the ‘artist’ in you much easier and faster than most other medium/tools.

Whether your creations are breathtaking, or simple, is only up to you. Everyone will react to your ‘art’ differently. You can count on that.

What Zbrush gave to me, above anything else, is the ability to do any task a multitude of different ways. I am not limited to creating something in 2d, or 3d. I have all the shades of gray in-between.

Just my humble opinion.

Word.

#16

Thanks a lot for everyone’s feedback on the matter.

I meant my drawing ability, not art in general, I am bad like that heh.

Here is my first work in project, it is coming out bad because I don’t know the features of the face well, and where to cut and make rises or falls in the proportions, this effects my drawing. The nose was easy to make, it’s just features now that I must get right! :frowning:

http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=myfirstface0jk.png

My knowledge of arts doesn’t stretch very far, I am in 10th grade, and take no art classes, just technology. In my school you choose a side basically, Art classes (drawing and such), and technology classes (anything with computers). Now for someone who wants to go into the gaming industry and produce things such as models and textures, which should I go with? Or should I talked to my councellor about being in both sides, I feel this might help.

#17

Again we move back to - Art is a supernatural - “subjective” - phenomenon - and it does’nt really matter what or how you paint. Thats because emotions are treated in the same way, and art by its very nature serves one purpose only - to evoke emotion. Furthermore, your art should not be governed by somebodies - rational or irrational - opinion off it.

1stbrother - Then? - the proper defenition of talent is - A natural aptitude for certain mental and physical abilities. It is not merely a jump start - you will NEVER be as good as them - you can only come close - at least at this point in our phyisico-medical knowledge.( There are acceptionally few of these people) Mukkinese - Yours are some very dangerous words - : First, practice without a consciencous and exact methodology, unless you do thesame thing for the whole of your life and memorise every single action and attribute of your subject(and that is still under question), does not make perfect. The purpose for practice is to automatize a certain process - but only after you have discovered how and why you should paint/draw..etc Or in general you must know to think - effectively and efficiently. Secondly, creativity is the act of observation and next, as a result, a process of invention (in art the application of value judgement). The originality of the piece and its potency in relaying emotion is, again, determined by the breadth of his experiance - his ability to integrate it - his clearity of thought - inpart his particular talent - - it is a marriage of his craft and philosopical view point. Moreover the emotions that the viewer feels can just as accuretely be described /defined - based on the theme - the style - the composition and certain other factors, and with a proper philosophical/phsycological understing of emotions - their causel depandancies.(They do exist they do no arise supernaturally from nothingness) The accptional artist is acceptional regardless of someone elses opinion - and does not wait for others to justify his work. If he knows and understands the above ideas - and if he is deeply in love with reality and the fuctions that bring about its existance - his standard of thinking and doing - - then he is acceptional, for he is in the action of creating REAL - proper - Art, and he knows it. Same applies to scientific and philosophical work. -------- Kircho --------

Ps - Unfortunantly what you need to learn to do is think objectively/logically, something your highschool cannot teach you, merely becasue they don’t know how to do it either( just look at how they organise the curriculum). I advise that this is the first step you should take, indipendantly of your school. Then you will not have to ask us how to persue your career aspirations :slight_smile:

#18

One thing that should be concidered when trying to define art (or just explain it) is that all good art and science sprouts from one thing, mystery.
That’s why all the popular movies and books deal with emotions like love, a very mysterious concept indeed.

Art and science are in my opinion humanity’s 2 greatest tools for navigating the world.
Somewhere in our evolution we found that information is a good thing, we invented art and science to explore the mysterious and gain more information about our world and our selves.

Visual art should be a box of information that is opened when a person looks at it, how effective the information is transfered depends on the artist (skill, experience, knoledge, whatever you think it takes to be a good artist).
This doesn’t always mean using the lowest common denominator to get you’r point across, allot of artists I think want their work to speak to each person individualy, it’s in the eye of the beholder as they say.

#19

Love is no mystery Manixolated, you just have to observe reality to find the answer. The fact that it remains a mystery in popular culture is on account of those novels you spoke about and a few bad philsophers and psycoanlysts, who at there inhability to define it, pronounced it undefinable.

Moreover art and science, sides of the same coin, do not arise because of “mystery”, they exist to give power - one in the realm of the physical the other in the realm of the abstract - or purely mental - the human emotion. POWER to gain perfection - Power over nature.

#20

Hey, updated my monster a bit! He looks a bit angrier! (Which is what I wanted)

He used to look all happy if you didn’t see post above, couldn’t get an angry feel for him. A bit better now.

I don’t know how to do the teeth well, so I just removed them so it didn’t make entire thing look horrible, same with eyes lol.