ZBrushCore (negative) experiences

[system]

Hi,

Preface: I give software a lot of leeway when it comes to light versions of products, because I know companies need to stay afloat. I get that. But I really feel like the ZBrushCore website is deceptive about exactly what you’re getting. That’s where this is coming from.
So I finally had some free time recently and wanted to get into Zbrush. I installed the demo, but it started locking up on me. It’s possible the crashes were OS or hardware related. I reinstalled everything, but it wouldn’t reactivate, and I really, really wanted to get into ZBrush, so I bought ZBrushCore. From the website, it sounded like it was basically Zbrush without advanced texture support and rendering.

Here’s what I found.

Generally speaking, it’s a light version of Zbrush. Many features are obviously not there, as noted on the website. But there are some points on the website that could’ve been clearer, and the implications of some of the points there aren’t obvious or even knowable until you’ve already bought the product. Here are 6 examples of things I really wish I’d known before I bought the product.

1. When they say 30 brushes, they really mean 19 geometry brushes, plus 7 masks and selection brushes. I know, that doesn’t equal 30. I don’t know what to say there.

You can add your own custom brushes, but they have to be derivatives of existing brushes and exported from ZBrushCore. Some brushes, like Trim Smooth Border (indispensable for making rocks) is not included, and therefore impossible to implement. If you have a favorite brush, please check this pic first to see if it’s in there. If it’s not, you can’t have it in Core.

2. Zbrush 4R7 content will not load in ZBrushCore AT ALL.

The website does say, “Opens All Files Created By ZBrush”, with an X to it. But that implies it can open some files created by ZBrush. I suppose you can export an OBJ from Zbrush and import it here. Yeah, that counts. What this should point out though is that your ZBrush projects won’t load at all. And you can’t load ZBrushCore projects in ZBrush AT ALL (yet).

It has to be created in ZBrushCore in order to load in ZbrushCore. I guess that’s their way of making sure you don’t sneak features in, but it really sucks when you can’t load something from the trial version or something made by a third party into your product. There’s a ton of great training material out there for ZBrush, it just won’t work with Core. And right now there’s practically no ZBrushCore content out there.

This means, if you’re a teacher and you’re trying to teach a class, you can’t use the full version of ZBrush if the class has Core. If you’re on a team with other ZBrush users, you all have to be using the full ZBrush or make sure everyone uses ZBrushCore.

4. Content created in ZbrushCore does not load in Zbrush. Not yet. It will in 4r8, but we’re not at that point yet, are we? So for now, forget about sharing content from ZbrushCore.

5. ZBrushCore also works slightly differently than ZBrush 4r7. I get the feeling they couldn’t figure out what to put in the UI in some places, so for example, one of the largest buttons in the UI takes you to the ZBrush HomePage. The scale and resize widget is actually better in Core, IMO, but it’s also different.

6. The UI is not customizable. Well, you can make the buttons bigger. But no iColor, etc.

Support has been less than stellar, but I’m going to give them another few days to see if I’ll get a response to any of my more recent emails before I ask them for a refund.

In short, if you want Zbrush, don’t get ZbrushCore. It’s not worth it. Just save your pennies and buy ZBrush.

My experience with the Demo not running, the lack of support from Pixologic, and my experience with ZBrushCore has pushed me back into looking at 3D-Coat. If I can get a Trim Smooth Border brush there, I’ll be in that boat in a heartbeat.

-Chilton

Attachments

[aurick]

Hi there,

I’m sorry that your experience has been negative thus far. We do understand that ZBrushCore is not for everyone. However, it has also been exactly what the doctor ordered for a great many users. We appreciate that you have shared your own personal feedback, though.

I would like to address the points that you mention here, however, as most of these points are either incorrect or fully disclosed on our website.

1. There are 30 brushes. Actually, there are 31. 26 of them are in the interface at launch. 5 more are found via the Brush tab in LightBox.

2. If you go to the Import/Export section of http://ZBrushCore.com/features it does state that ZBrushCore cannot open files created by ZBrush. This information has been available from the very start of preorders.

3. (You didn’t have a point 3)

4. This is true – to a point. You actually can get content from ZBrush to ZBrushCore and vice versa by exporting rather than using a native format. For example, OBJ.

5. This was part of the initial ZBrushCore announcement at the Summit. ZBrushCore utilizes ZBrush 4R8 code. That’s why it has the Widget, for example (which you said that you like). The fact that it is based on 4R8 is why ZBrush can’t yet open native format files created by ZBrushCore. When 4R8 is released, both ZBrush and ZBrushCore will have the Widget. Everything will work the same in both versions.

6. You can create your own hotkeys. You can rearrange your layout. In fact, you could even remove that Home Page button that you seem not to like. Custom colors are not supported but there are several alternate color schemes available to you. You can move between them by using the Load User Interface Colors buttons found in the title bar, immediately to the right of the DefaultZScript button. Custom colors are something that most users never delve into and it has an almost bewildering number of options. That’s why it’s not included in ZBrushCore. But to say that the UI is not customizeable is far from true.

Regarding Support, I’ve just looked at your history. You have submitted a total of 3 tickets:

A) Answered 22 minutes after you submitted it – and outside normal business hours.
B) Answered 6 hours after you submitted it. Also outside business hours. You submitted 3 hours after close of business and received a reply at 3:09 am.
C) Submitted during a holiday weekend, during which our offices were closed. We are still catching up on the tickets from over the Thanksgiving weekend. You will receive a reply today, which is within one business day of submission.

Also, for some people it makes great sense to buy ZBrushCore with the intent of upgrading to ZBrush. When ZBrush 4R8 is released, we will open the door for upgrades from ZBrushCore, giving a $100 discount off the ZBrush purchase price. Some people do want to start learning ZBrushCore while they save their money for ZBrush. Other people will find that as their skills grow with ZBrushCore, they want access to the more advanced feature set of ZBrush and will want to upgrade. There is a path for that and it won’t necessarily make the most sense for them to follow your advice of skipping ZBrushCore.

[system]

Hi Aurick,

1. You’re absolutely right. I mistakenly thought ‘brushes’ meant usable brushes that I could use to sculpt things, and did not realize selecting things is considered a brush. While we’re on the subject, why are those five additional brushes not actually included by default? I can understand storing extra brushes when you have 300 of them, but when there are only 31, why hide five of them? I assume there’s a reason, so I’m honestly curious.

2. As I said, “The website does say, “Opens All Files Created By ZBrush”, with an X to it. But that implies it can open some files created by ZBrush.” – the page you’re referencing is exactly where I got that text. If you think I’m being pedantic, that’s your prerogative, so just chalk that up to one paying customer who didn’t understand the breadth of what that meant. No third party assets for ZBrush, like training materials, will work in ZBrushCore unless they’re in some format like OBJ.

Regarding support tickets, feel free to pat yourself on the back if you want, but here’s what happened on each of those.

1. Your automated sales system did not send me a download link. That, or you’re handling sales by hand. If it’s not automated, it would be okay for you to not say things like ‘you’ll get a download link in 5 minutes’. I would’ve been content to wait till business hours. As it stood, it said I’d get a download link, and I never did. If I had not submitted the ticket, I would not have received a download link.

2. I asked where OBJ Export is found. I did get an answer from Support (and I was very happy with the response time here, though I was not given a chance to provide feedback on that), which was fantastic, but it came with a disclaimer that this isn’t what support is for. I had already read the manual, and did a search on your site. Try it yourself. Here’s the link.
   http://docs.pixologic.com/?s=obj+export

Note that the correct answer is not there. It’s also not in the getting started PDF. Come to think of it, I’m still not sure how I was expected to find that, other than randomly clicking through the interface.

3. My original question still hasn’t been answered. Not to worry, I sent a request to support to find out what the answer is.

-Chilton

Attachments

[Altea]

You probably will get quickly help about things like obj export in this forum or simply doing a search in google as “export obj Zbrush”.
Zbrush documentation is OK, but search engines in online help are usually not great.

[Cryrid]

Note that the correct answer is not there.

I think they could probably do a better job with tagging articles for more search words, but in fairness:

• The very first result from the link is a method for exporting OBJ files (with additional export options export all in one convenient place rather than in a different subpalette).
• The third result is also capable of exporting OBJs
• User Guide > 3D Modeling > Exporting Your Model lists 3 ways to export your model as an OBJ (this is the one that needs better tagging, IMO)

[system]

First, I really appreciate that people are trying to help. Seriously. This highlights the problem I’m getting at–ZBrushCore is different than ZBrush to the extent that the solutions for ZBrush DO NOT WORK in Core.

Altea, a google search for “export obj Zbrush” does not yield the correct result. Since Core is based on 4r8, and since the correct result is a “side effect” of a feature, I assume 4r8 will have other options. I assume. I don’t have 4r8, but surely the correct answer (see below) is not the only answer in 4r8.

Cyrid, I wish it had been that simple.

1. The first link is entirely wrong, for Core. It is obviously correct for 4R7. For Core, here’s what I have for those menus and tools. If you’ll take a look at 4R7, you’ll see the obvious differences.
   

2. The third result, multi-map exporter, does not exist in Core (as far as I can tell).

3. None of these options are in Core.

---

I know both of you are very active in the community. Hopefully you can see now why I, a new user, would be frustrated at the documentation and website.

The correct way to export an OBJ in Core is… :drumroll:…

Tool:Export

Oh I get what they’re doing there–the tool export feature uses the OBJ format, so it was easy to just put that in and call it a day. But even the popup help window just says this exports a tool. The only way I’d know this was the OBJ exporter was to have randomly clicked on it at some point.

My point here is that because Core is so different than 4r7, and since it can’t even use 4r7 files, a lot of the normal support system in place that makes ZBrush community so great, fails new Core users. Pixologic could address this very easily by having a simple user’s guide for Core. I assume they’re putting something bigger together for 4R8 though, which is why there’s no Core user’s guide with these things in it.

Or am I wrong here? Is there a fully fleshed out Core user’s guide? That would be fantastic. I’d be very glad to be wrong about that.

-Chilton

[Altea]

That is basically the same place than in Zbrush 4R7

I don’t say it to dismiss your comments at all. I can’t, because I don’t know enough Core and I should not offered help about something that I have not used. I assumed would be similar. Simply in this case it seems to be in the same place but not necessarily is the case for other tools.
In any case the Zbrush interface (and perhaps Core) is far from intuitive, even is the industry standard for organic modeling and 3d-coat offers very little competition.

[system]

Hi Altea,

We’re in complete agreement here. Tool Export is in the same place in both products.

However, that is the only way to export an OBJ, and there is no documentation that says Tool Export is the way to do that. I did search for OBJ export on the website and the documentation that comes with the product, and I didn’t find Tool Export as an answer, anywhere. It is in fact, the only answer, in Core.

What I found (and what has been suggested here) were other things, none of which work in Core.

That’s a perfect example of the reasons I’m frustrated with this product. Those things that normally help with ZBrush, like this forum, countless videos, and plugins, don’t work with Core. And there’s no updated documentation.

By the way, here’s all the ZBrushCore manual has to say about OBJ export.

So… all I have to do is export OBJ

There’s just no way to know how to do that without stumbling across this thread, or asking tech support for help.

-Chilton

[aurick]

There are quite a number of ZBrushCore learning resources out. Here are some:

27 videos from Pixologic
[youtubepl]PLMjnnUF3eJFcBHbBGrtAm9HD2-IlrHMOJ[/youtubepl]

47 videos from Michael Pavlovich
[youtubepl]PLkzopwqcFevbD6QZnhzROSyiaFUCZxPz3[/youtubepl]

12 videos from ZBrushGuides
Getting Started with ZBrushCore

[Cryrid]

Ahh my bad; for some reason I thought that was a completely different question regarding the quality of the R7 Documentation (in which case, yeah - it’s written for R7 and not Core/R8) :lol: I see what you mean though; I’m unfamiliar with what options Core itself has removed.

The “exporting your model” page was still correct however, as the first method it says is “you can export your model directly from ZBrush using the Export button in the Tool palette.” A visual might improve that page for new users, as there can be a lot of buttons in the Tool palette and so one like the export button can easily get lost.

[system]

Sure, it’s correct, what’s missing is the fact that this is how you export an OBJ file.

The key here is the ‘OBJ’ name. That’s what I was looking for, and that’s what is weirdly absent from that page (and all Core documentation).

Here’s the link.
http://docs.pixologic.com/user-guide/3d-modeling/exporting-your-model/

It just doesn’t say what format, nor does any mention of OBJ export on their website or in the documentation link back to this page.

My point is that you have to intuitively know somehow that an “exported tool” is the same as an OBJ file.

Which is weird.

-Chilton

[cosmic.ollie]

Hello everybody,

i just want to add my 2 cents to this.

first, yes - zbrush is not intuitive - but - no 3d software out there is.

we are not talking about eg. photoshop where someone can try and experiment with
the functions and use them to a certain degree.

second, try to get support from other very big companies (i don´t name them)

• i spent lots of money on them back in the days and the response and help you get as
  a single person is literally zero. they don´t care at all if you are not a big company and buy
  lots of licenses from them. when updates come from these companies they give you
  another new bug loaded package and you pay loads of money for it.

here you get instant and direct response from one of the main persons behind
zbrush.

let that sink in.

third point:

ok, it may be easy for me to say this as a long time zbrush user:

zbrush with all it´s funky features in the full version - at the end of the day you´ll need:

some brushes (which are there) and dynamesh. that´s it. that´s the core of zbrush and
no one in the world will ever be able to use all the possibilities and what is able to do with them in
10 lives.

look at artists like ts wittelsbach / kingslien etc. to only name a few - summarized it is „all“ what they are using.

ok, some things are confusing in the beginning like naming a 3d model tool etc. where to export
stuff, navigation, „function xy is not included“ etc. but if this is what is distracting people from learning
and using eg. zbrush …

well …

i´d recommend that every beginner should go to pixologic -> learn zbrush -> video tutorials -> courses ->
getting started -> zbrush introduction -> and watch all the videos that are there. and if some of the
features shown there are not in core - then be it.

that is all you will need. as said before: all the funky advanced features (imm, nanomesh, zremesher, etc etc)

i dont want to miss them. but if you have dynamesh and the brushes in core and you are a good artist
then you can do anything you can think of for very little money. and this will come back to you if you are using
eg 3d printing, game works, concepts or illustrations for 2d print etc. etc after your first commercial job.

so, enough talk.

welcome to the greatest community and (from my point of view) the most sophisticated piece of software on
this planet when it comes to 3d modeling/sculpting/design and let´s create some artwork.

you´ll get a lot of help, love and respect from this community - if you allow it. but with just ranting you´ll face a lot of
die-hard zbrush users who will defend „their“ tool. you decide.

all the best

cosmic