Of course (slap head!)
Probably obvious to more seasoned users but it just hit me, OK I’m a bit slow, but ZB makes it a doddle to design 3D characters extremely quickly. In this example I took the stock Otto model from Cinema 4D and within 15 minutes turned him into the basics of Giuseppe Baldini, master perfumer (er, minus wig and appropriate 18thC toggs, which will hopefully be easier to create with clothilde)
Cheers
Sav
…deformation 
Pilou
Its cool, but it’d be more impressive if you modeled a generic basemesh yourself and used that as a basis for charcters rather than using the existing cinema4d mesh.
But yeh, it does demonstrate zbrush’s ability to deform nicely 
Ah yes, that old gem. Well in an ideal world where you don’t have to pay the bills…don’t get me wrong, I do prefer doing it from scratch, but which ever way you look at it, I’m increasingly being asked to do character work with stupidly short deadlines and the precise point of this exercise was to see how I could speed up the process. By using a base mesh which already has the right topology and a good enough low poly count, I can just concentrate on re-deforming it into whatever I want, which is where the real creativity happens in my opinion. Of course eventually my base mesh will be created from scratch too as I believe there are a number of ways I could improve on it to facilitate a wider range of characters, but modelling is something I can currently do well enough…if I happen to have a day or two to spare 15 mins or a day?..hmmm
But anyhow I really don’t have a problem using library objects as a base, its not that you can’t do it or don’t have the inclination, it just saves a bit of time for such commercial work and to be honest the client couldn’t give 2 figs how it was done, as long as it is satisfactory and delivered on time. I realise most creatives would probably say to that -well go and buy poser then, which would actually be a good idea if the base mesh was clean enough to bring into ZBrush
Thanks for looking
Sav
Yeah, I agree. If the finished product is good, and looks nothing like the base mesh, I don’t see the problem. Sure, there’s people who say, “where’s the skill in using a pre-made base?” And to a degree, they’re right. But if you’re talking about product that needs to hit a deadline, so what? It kind of reminds me of the reluctance a lot of pro’s had to subdivision modeling. I remember reading a book on modeling that said, “box-modeling is a way to do cartoony characters, but the results are unrealistic, and too amateur. If you want to be a REAL modeler, you will use Splines.”
I also see no difference between using a basemesh, deforming the hell out of it, so that it looks completely different, and using photo’s for textures, and editing them to fit your needs. Some people like it, some people don’t. And I’ll bet that if you didn’t say anything, very few people, if any, would know. And isn’t that the point? The results?
Yeh i totally understand Sav, as long as you credit the original model, which you did, then fine. All I meant was, i’m sure you could model a similar basemesh yourself for the purpose of saving time in the future.
Sorry if I was being too purist.
respect.
Very good point of view Replica. Great ortodox spline example. It is like you could not remix a song, or do new arrangements for its parts…because real instruments are not involved in that…what!!! 
Nice work Sav.
That is a point that needs to be made. Make your own models, or at least credit the person who made them. I think that’s the idea most people get when they hear someone talk about using a pre-made basemesh, “that person didn’t really make the model.” I use hands that I made a while back, and import them into my scene, and edit them accordingly. Just using bits and pieces like that helps save a LOT of time and agrivation. But just downloading someone elses model, editing it, and calling it yours, is not something one should normally do.
[EDIT] There’s another issue you should be aware of. All the problems that were in the basemesh, will translated into the newer work. Some of these can be fixed by simple editing in Z, and some need more attention. Edgeloops for one, if they’re bad in the base, they’ll be bad in the high res too. But of course, you could edit those, and minimize the problem, yet it kind of negates the reason you’re using the basemesh in the first place. Time. Ugh, I really have to think about this…
Which is exactly why after doing this little exercise I realise I need to create my own base mesh. As it happens the Otto mesh needed a bit of fixing before it could be brought into ZB, but for the purpose of the experiment still took less time to fix.
Troymcoy: I didn’t necessarily think you were being purist at all, I just figured that since Maxon had gone to the trouble of providing a detailed model for us to practice with in whatever way we sit fit then I would oblige and on a personal level I totally agree, but the sad (and yet happy) fact is that other people pay me to deliver in a short time span, so if that means buying a Marlin Studios CD to accomplish the task then I would have no problem with that.
Hey this is a very enlightening topic, its good to hear other people’s point of view on this. I think I might be a bit of a mercenary hehe. Not that I wouldn’t give credit where its due, but hmmm, its like taking away the achievement of Weta Digital because they scanned some characters instead of building them from scratch. No. What they did from that point on was what mattered.
Sav
I think the line has to be drawn at how subtle or dramatic the changes are. The form of this character is entirely your own, regardless where it’s topology originated. The textures you create will further distinguish it. The important thing to me is that no one will ever mistake yours for the other work. The end result, be it a still image or feature-length animation, will be judged on the character and personality you imbue it with. Those looking to criticize your behind-the-scenes process… need lives.
You can make your own spheres, too. Start with a single edge in your poly modeling application of choice. Extrude and manipulate until round. Or… you could use a primitive. At what point is that considered cheating?
(As a side note, someone on this forum did create their own sphere a while back, using less manual techniques. The results are widely considered a better primitive to model from because of it’s topology. But strangely, no one’s ever been accused of cheating for using that sphere, either.)
I build my own low-poly base characters, because it’s harder to troubleshoot a problem I didn’t cause. And there’s less incentive to – we can get away with murder if there’s someone else to blame. The old addage “if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself” is especailly true there. But, that’s me. We all have our reasons for working the way we do.
Just don’t go showing off the wireframe without crediting the source. The topology itself. If any part of this belongs to someone else, it’s that.
(and maybe the ears)
…well, no. I should ammend that. If you do all of your work on the face, but make no appreciable changes to the body itself, that’s a whole other can of worms. Obviously not the case here. Though, you may need to fatten the hands a bit to better match the rest of him. His fingers don’t feel plump enough yet.
Well said, sir! Now if more people with the ability to articulate their opinions as good as Ctrl-Z posted, we could have a REAL debate on our hands.
Honestly, the only arguments for or against the use of base meshes, that I have read, have been, “where’s the skill in it?”, “I don’t need skill if I can do it once and forget about it.” And to me, neither of those views fly. One is trying to dictate the creative process, and the other is just plain lazy. Also, one assumes the use of someone elses mesh for a base, and the other is just grasping at straws for an excuse to use it. Laziness on the part of an artist is not something that should be celebrated, but at the same time, dictating the way someone should start their model is not to be tolerated either.
The fact of the matter is, technology has afforded artists the ability to express themselves faster, easier, and in some cases, more cheaply. Should we deny ourselves the use of tools because others MIGHT disagree with there use? No, but neither should we rely on digital “crutches” just to make a buck.
I know, I know, I’m just repeating myself, I just don’t want an artist to come here, and think they CAN’T use basemeshes, because it’s against the rules. This is art, people, there shouldn’t be rules!
Some very interesting points and nicely articulated. Whichever way you look at it I now know that I want to create both male and female base meshes so I can quickly sketch out character ideas in ZB, and I’m guessing that since most corporate clients would shrink at the idea of using full nudity to promote their goods the base mesh will need to have some kind of generic clothing
Cheers
Sav
Bah. That’s what the smooth brush is for!
“See, Mr. Client? I can shrivel his manhood with just one gesture! Now, about our contract…”
EDIT:
I may have gone too far there. I think the joke is okay since “Nudity” is right there in the title – we should be a mature audience on this thread, right? But if a moderator wants to delete this one, I’ll totally understand.
Hahaa! “shrink” at the idea of nudity, huh? That’s pretty funny.
CTRL-Z you rock!
hehe it is a sad cynical world…not least because on a creative board like this the moderator had to see fit to add the word nudity to the title, it certainly wasn’t me. Does half a man’s er manhood (and furtherfore the least offensive half) constitute nudity ha!
No I do understand people have to cover their backs, but how on earth did we get here? And how come the sistine chapel doesn’t have a (nudity) warning
Cheers
Sav
Very nice morphing and a great character Sav. It’s interesting to note that Daz3d (Poser content creators) have been using ZB fro morph creation for quite a while!
“hehe it is a sad cynical world…”
It is indeed but unfortunately you are right about sites having to cover their backs. What I find more depressing though is the horror that the naked human body seems to engender (and heaven forbid it should be a sexual image!) while appalling violence is accepted without comment! It’s a strange world we live in! - Baz
Oops! Edited to correct stupid mistake! Sorry Sav and CtrlZ!
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Very nice morphing and a great character CtrlZ.
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Speaking of miscredited work… That comment should be directed to Sav, as he’s responsible for the image which sparked this debate.
(though as it turns out, I do have great character. thanks for noticing!)
Oops! Sorry about that!
Thanks Baz, the Daz thing doesn’t surprise me, its so easy to do that its a no brainer, I just took a while to catch on In fact, it has taken me an awful long time to get to this ZB happiness, why I remember many years ago when we were both still using Pixels3D, Jason Belec telling us how amazing ZB was but you know, I only clean out my ears once a blue moon hehe.
Violence v Nudity: I know!! ludicrous really.
Ctrl-Z - You can have the credit if you want, I’m not sure I should have started all this
Cheers
Sav