ZBrushCentral

Would you mind to re-learn Zbrush?

Hello Artists,

This thing is something that I’ve been talking about with some co-workers and fellow artists for some time, and even though it seems like an obvious conversation, I haven’t found actual involved discussions about it. It is no one’s surprise that Zbrush is a challenging tool to wrap your mind around when you first start to learn it. It might not be a hard tool to use by itself if you approach it in a vacuum, with no previous baggage or pre-conceived ideas, but if you are familiar with any other 3D programs or even the standard Windows environment “logic” (which pretty much covers the vast majority of the population), Zbrush is a Rosetta stone to decipher, with a suite of unique and (to the outsider) whimsical design decisions to grasp.

Once you learn it, you become quite confident with it, but that doesn’t take from the fact that things like “pixols”, having to start from a Zsphere to retopologize, not being able to middle-mouse-scroll through subtools or creating a somewhat odd set of planes to do some approximation to CAD-like hard-surface modelling seem far from intuitive even to the frequent user, and as new features get added, the interface suffers from an increasing feeling of being stockpiled, often requiring to check tutorials to see how does the logic of those new additions operate within the Zbrush UI parallel universe, let alone returning to Zbrush after some time of being unaware of the new features and trying to learn them.

Don’t take me wrong, I think Zbrush is a wonderful tool. It has revolutionized the industry in many ways, and it does the job significantly better than the competition, for the most part, and I haven’t switched programs for a lot of reasons, including an amazing free-upgrade and pricing policy and excellent community, among others. But I can’t ignore the fact that the tool seems more and more each day like a victim of its origins as a 2.5 tool (aspect barely anyone uses anymore) when it comes to the UI design, to the point of being alien not only to newcomers, but for the conversations I’ve had about the topic, even to seasoned veterans that use it almost daily and seem to almost unanimously agree in silence.

To me, it’s got to a point where whenever I hear about a new version of Zbrush, I only wish for one feature: the absolute overhaul of its interface and many of its concepts from the ground-up, to something intuitive and integrated into the Windows/MacOS layout. I understand that from a company’s standpoint, it is a very dangerous move risking themselves to alienate their audience with some complete revamp, and since their mindset seems to be a “keep adding features” approach, they might not have the intention to fix something they don’t see as broken. On the other hand, I know I would be absolutely happy to pay for a hypothetical Zbrush 5 whose only new feature would be “being intuitive and designed for expanding in the future”, and I would happily learn it again. I also perceive the people I’ve talked to agree with me in the topic, but since the sample is quite small, I wanted to throw the question to the public, to see the general consensus, if any.

That said (sorry for the wall of text), what are you people’s thoughts on the issue? Don’t you see an issue at all? Would you mind to re-learn the program from scratch if Pixologic completely overhauled the interface? Really curious about your thoughts :wink:

Cheers
Abel

In short, no, I wouldn’t mind; I’d quite welcome it.

If an overhaul isn’t inevitable, though I think it may be, I at least hope that folks are looking at the nature of the app and how it is used and reminding themselves that, as I put it often, ‘workarounds are not workflows’; there’s still a good bit that feels cobbled, tacked on, unrefined. Navigation, selection, masking, disparate modules and ways to get to what is such basic functionality-- it’s ridiculous at times. ‘I just want to XYZ- it shouldn’t be this hard and why did someone have to devise a 20-step process for it!!!’ The touted intuitive nature and free-form approach will always require some learning, some curve, some edge, some level of digging in and understanding that this is a different means of working, but I think that too much is legacy (I may be wrong here), and understand what it implies to suggest gutting that and refining it… but isn’t it time?

Seeing how the core of the app has been pushed to such excellent limits and given that yeah, there’d probably be some push back, though I don’t know how well informed, well… I keep fingers crossed too.

still love 4R7 though :wink:

I don’t think that it will happen in short term. Zbrush is as the natural evolution, everything is kept and everything is added (Photoshop did the same). The obvious clutter created by older parts that has little use makes the program difficult to handle. But even new features have the same philosophy that non intuitive UI is OK. Most of the features only can be learned by videos or documentation as it is not possible figure out simply using it, for example transpose.

In any case the idea seems to be that the resources of the team are better spend adding features than cleaning the house. I personally don’t mind. There is simply no program remotely with the same functionality than Zbrush. That means that if they need to do compromises perhaps this was the needed one. Obviously I would prefer a cleaner UI, but probably not at the cost of features. Tools as Zremesher, UV master, Dynamesh etc reduce to a few clicks what would be slow tasks in other programs and allows to focus in the modeling.

I would be happy if at least they use shift to make all layers visible when clicking the eye in the active subtool. I hate when you do it accidentally. :smiley:

The number one reason why I have yet to do anything significant with Zbrush is it’s UI and usability. It literally makes me feel dumb every time I open it up and scares the willies outta me. I would 100% vote for a UI re-design that made it more ‘familiar’

Zbrush suffers the same issues as classics such as anything by Metacreations, they did something new but it’s just so alien that many can’t re-train the brain.

3D-Coat is basically what I try and use but it’s almost as bad… Mudbox got it right to be honest UI wise but lacks the functions…

K

Mudbox is currently abandon and I don’t think they will release a new version. This in some way shows what the priority for the users are.

Yea, I think that’s kind of bad for the user, since it removes the competition and Pixologic’s pressure to work in that area. I can see many people not entering into digital sculpting at all if the only major tool feels inaccessible. But again, my biggest concern is really that even veteran users suffer those UI issues. Seems a bit like the elephant in the room.

I kind of think of how Toolbag 2 was such a nice UI revamp from the previous one, that made the program so much better and inviting, or how 3DsMax was a full revamp from 3DStudio, and how much Zbrush needs some huge facelift and shower in that line, and become something more akin to Mudbox. If Autodesk’s pricing policy wasn’t so bad, Mudbox could have been a serious competitor, because it was significantly better in the UI side.

There are also other mainstream tools with a industry-wide use (even being the standard at what they do) like Xnormal or UVlayout that suffer from similar terrible UI design problems, and it blows my mind that no one comes to either revamp them or compete with them in that area.(I guess Xnormal is more justifiable being free at all, although I’d happily pay for a similar tool with actual good 3D previsualization/cage tools).

If I was an entrepreneur I’d had already targeted those market niches :stuck_out_tongue: