Did the base head with a script I made for ryter. Took it a bit further…doesnt look like Worf but it did feel good to stretch a z muscle with the image…thnx for taking a look.
Ron
script for the head is on this page
Quick Klingon Head
Captain Picard is looking for him!!!
See that hair is not his problem.
Thanks as usual for motivation.
Very nice modeling, but I know that definitely is NOT Worf because I have a crush on him 
Hey, need to take my mind off things, so guess I will try to do Worf (the hunk) too.
Oh yeah, I get to “do him”
Many Blessings
To pursue a line of questioning originating in the other post.
In this script, you use zadd,zsub.
They were basically not touched in the prior script.
Is it merely whim that dictates what you use?
If not what is the criteria?
Klingon vs human.
Blocky vs delicate.
If I know in advance what the head will be (or hope to be)does this decide my approach
As usual my thanks and apology for cluttering a thread that should have been
Worf’s alone
Blood wine for everyone!!!
Rtyer, at one point on the demo, and for a very long time, I had no idea of what people were meaning by pushing and pulling (and was too embarassed to ask), so I did all my models with ZADD and ZSUB. And I have to tell you, my world opened up when I found out about push and pull, because it made everything so much easier. I like everything to be smooth, and I am telling you, it is damned hard if you use ZADD and ZSUB alone.
So I really think it is a choice of being the easiest way to set up the basics as far as you can, and then going to the ZADD and ZSUB.
Many Blessings
yer right kitty…I am on my way out to go work on a xmas float but I wanted to try to answer some of this before I left…
To pursue a line of questioning originating in the other post.
In this script, you use zadd,zsub.
They were basically not touched in the prior script.
Is it merely whim that dictates what you use?
Answer…for me it depends on the model…you have alot more control on the model with the push and pull method of modeling…though this one turned out alright, I get better results by not using the zadd and zsub cept’ for tweaking a model here and there…
If not what is the criteria?
Klingon vs human.
No criteria for me on that…
Blocky vs delicate.
Push and pull just looks better to me on a whole. The way shown in the zscript is easy, but the results arent as good, especially if you are keeping the model or showing anything other than a frontal view…that script took a total of less than five minutes from start to finish…including paint…its quick n easy …but if you are going to keep the model I would recommend push n pull for better results etc…zadd and zsub are great for tweaking or making things other than faces and bodies and parts…in my opinion…
If I know in advance what the head will be (or hope to be)does this decide my approach
Planning always helps…in anything we do…albeit art or life in general 
I like sketching prior to doing stuff if possible for reference…but…just doodling in z is fun too…
As usual my thanks and apology for cluttering a thread that should have been
Worf’s alone
Worf wouldnt mind…he is not a merry man…snicker…trek joke…You know I love to help when I can…
Blood wine for everyone!!!
If you can get yourself into doing the pushing and pulling on the meshes you will better be able to refine your model to look exactly how you want it to look. And with that method, you can achieve incredible details that the zadd and sub just wont allow…unless of course you are working in a very very high poly count model…as Jaycephus spoke of on the other thread…He is totally right.
Thnx for showing interest…ya’ll are the kind of people that keep me around 
You had to say you knocked it out in 5 minutes, couldn’t you have lied and said an even hour or so?
Excellent: one more question and I quit(for the moment anyway)
Circumstances:
- The net result would be a head such as worf.Front shot only.
2.Printed perhaps.
3.No background to speak of.
4.Poly count put aside ( doesn’t factor in at all!!!)
5.The result would ideally be as close to a photograph as possible
For the best possible detail what would be the best approach from a beginners point of view.
Zadd,zsub,
Push,pull
High poly low poly.
( to influence your answer somewhat, rotating half spheres for eyelids sucks and should be outlawed by the Modellers union)
As I have mentioned time and time again ad nauseum, I appreciate this much and strangely enough I am getting better at it.
With the help of a lot of nice people!!
for that type of static image…(tongue in cheek) zadd and sub…with a very very high poly head…
lol…you dont like the half sphere eyelids…lol…are they just giving you troubles or are they just too simple of a thing to use… 
To give you a sampling;
In the script obviously you did this in about 5 seconds.
My idea was to model a head in stages
When it came time for the eyelids I tried using the multi-marker.
Upper left,mark, upper right,mark etc
When I redrew it one part was on the floor another eyelid was on the sofa etc.
And that was on a good day!!!
I am sending one of my current bums,I laughingly calll it work in retreat(wir)it will give you and idea of the extent of my education so far.
One thing I have learned to do well, I delete heads faster than anyone in this forum.
If anyone wants to delete fast I will write the tutorial.
Mr. Harris
In reading over this and the thread started by Atom, I realize apologies are in order.
This was a thread to show your work and for you to gain valuable insight.
Instead it has become one dedicated to what Richard Tyer doesn’t know.
I am always grateful for your help and kindness, I can only blame my lack of manners on my enthusiam about the work.
Somewhat lame reason, but accurate.
Thank you
Ha Ronster…certainly achieving some life in your models these days…looking good.
Ryter stop apologising…you ain’t doing anything wrong…in fact it is great to see your interest and feedback.
I agree with Ed…dont sweat it…I am all for showing me what yer doing…this modeled pic above was due to you needing some help. I simply didnt delete it from my screen and spent a few more minutes on it finishing it to what you see above…was nice for me to be able to take the time to share…I like win win situations…your eagerness to learn and your witty personality and your modeling progression makes it all worth me coming into the forum to take a gander, truly. It’s a pleasure for me to help someone that wants help as you and Kitty have shown to me. So please feel free to post your pics and Wirs…lol…on my threads…and Ed I think is like I am as in wanting to help others become better in their works especially if interest is shown, as you have demonstrated. So again don’t sweat it. Your head is coming along nicely too. it will get easier, trust me…Kitty hasn’t shown it yet, but she has a very nice WIP coming along…And zbrushing doesnt neccesarily have anything to do with what our real world professions are…trust me…right now I recently have become basically unemployed due to the loss of a large cleaning contract…so it’s all good… I don’t know what you do in the real world, but I do like what you do here, is what I am trying to say. Keep up the good work.
And Ed thank you…I got lucky on this one 
Ryter, if it weren’t for the Ed’s, Mentat’s, Pixolator’s, Glen’s, Bonecradle’s, Jaycephus’s, Rhom’s etc…(the list is lengthy) and their kindness in guiding me over the past 2 years then I would still be at square one modelling doodoo…they all had a tremendous amount of patience with me and I think still do…the learning never ever stops around here…
Razputine ?
For Kitty in french
Push Pull =
Pousser Tirer on the clay
Pilou
My gratitude is compounding on a daily basis!!!
Mr. Harris:
In the past few days, I have spent more hours than I would care to publicly admit trying to do something that in your tutorials and scripts takes maybe two flicks of the wrist.I thought that if I kept going I would get it,instead it has gotten worse.
Eyes.
In your scripts you create the main sphere drop it in, at that point you create a half sphere and drop it in four times two in top,two on bottom for the lids.
Basically what it boils down to is how do you do it.
I have never seen so many bad combinations as I have come up with in the last few days.
Also once dropped in and marked when it is redrawn,how do you shape them?
It is not my desire to be a royal pain in the ass nor am I too lazy to do the work.
This has become a lot bigger problem than I thought it would.
To say thank you would be putting it midly.