ZBrushCentral

What is wrong with ya'll ??

Community
#1

hi everybody @ zbrushcentral
first of all let me say that this place may be the number one adress on the entire web for zbrush resources. well but that’s not all. i’ve viewed the content posted here, and some people think mixing colours with some brush strokes and some z-depth is ART. Hmmm let me see. There are several website with art content and philosophy about art. But were is the art in this forum. Also several posts are made with one and the same image. Sometimes i only can see a change of colour or another snake hook brush elevates out of a primitve. This should not be a froum to post all crap and minimalistic changes to an image. This place should grow with fly images and well thought about content. Not everybody can draw, including me, but i don’t post me stuff knowing it’s not good ! Another point i critic is, that there is no critism on worx posted at all. Is this fair to the “artist” ? Should he believe his “artworx” are dope ? Sorry, but he/she will die stupid, don’t know what to make better in their next version. I know critic hurts, but it’s the best way to improve skillz. Sometimes i really think “how can they say it’s dope or nice” if it’s only a layer with few primitives and materials ? Crazy, screwed up world some are living in.
Well at last, all i wanted to say is ->
“Be more critic and help the people by telling them what is good and what is crap”

THNX for reading
:small_orange_diamond:neomecha :small_orange_diamond:

#2

I agree that a fair comment should be made on the images posted. I do not agree that updates should not be posted. That is the only way others can follow the progress, and development of a project, and learn by seeing. Also, THIS IS A LEARNING FORUM NOT AN ART GALLERY, there are a lot of those around, for those who wish to display their creations. The best way to learn, is to present work and have others more experienced look at it and offer tips on how it can be improved, or by asking how something was done, and so learn a new technique, or a new way to use an old tool.
What is art to one person is crap to others. At least that is the way I see it. Maybe when you spend more time on this forum you will understand what I am talking about.

#3

Hear Hear DeeVee!! I believe that this forum has evolved into a bona fide support forum. I think above all other aspects the ZBrush community uses this medium to support and encourage other ZBrushers in their endeavors. To limit the expressions in this forum only to “Dedicated and true artists” (note to self: is there such a thing as true artist?) would be a great injustice to all the fledgling ZBrushers out there like myself who would otherwise shy away from participating and otherwise providing valuable insights and support for this community. OK I will step down from my soapbox now. The point is that anyone can ask for criticism if they so desire but I think most people here are really after some positive motivation.

'nuff said

#4

I must second DeeVee’s post. :+1:

My own additions go like this:

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. This forum has run better than my own family at times!

So whether or not people post too much or too little or “crap” or “masterpieces” is irrelevant.

If you don’t like something, post.
If you do, post.
If you have an idea or improvement, post.
If you really don’t like something, don’t look.

But please, don’t instruct me how I should use this forum. I believe this forum means something different to each and every individual.

There are plenty of stuffy, boring, “oh, I am an Artiste”, sites for that type of thing.

I’m sorry you feel so negative towards others work that fits this description: “Sometimes i only can see a change of colour or another snake hook brush elevates out of a primitve. This should not be a froum to post all crap and minimalistic changes to an image.”

MAYBE it’s their FIRST time involved in this process? Maybe they don’t know a damn thing about art itself. Maybe they are just having a BLAST messing and moving and pushing color. MAYBE their only motive is to have FUN, enjoy some Camaraderie and NOT work???

Maybe you miss the point of ZBrush Central.

"Crazy, screwed up world some are living in.
"

You judge the world by ONE forum named ZBrush Central? You need to turn off your computer and go outside. :wink:

#5

Hi newmecha,
To get the feedback that you are seeking, you simply ask for ‘121 feedback’ ( One To One ).
Read about the 121 Rules in this F.A.Q. thread
-ZuZu :slight_smile:

#6

dear kathy. first of all i did not instruct anybody. Read the thread right, pleaze. second of all i do not feel negative at all. i’m a very happy and friendliy personality. it seems like there is no critizm alowed at all (as i can read in your post) almost sounds like censorship. Missing a point ? In a forum ? Sorry but i guess there is not much to miss. Read, look, post. uff “You judge the world…” uff. to judge is actually not my sphere of activity. it seems like you’re really misunderstood my thread, sorry about that.

#7

On judgement, I think you put everyone on the defensive with the title of your post “Whats wrong with ya’ll”

I submit that there is nothing wrong with us at all. The fact that you are asking this question infers that “You” are OK and the rest of us are not? Truely I do not believe that is what you meant but please take care with them pointy words they are liable to stab the unwary.

Like Zuzu says, postfix your work with 121 and you will get the kind of input you want. As for the rest of it I hope this forum never changes it’s ways and continues to be a place of learning and sharing no matter the level of skill. It is the one thing that makes this place unique.

#8

Dear neomecha,
The fine thing about this Forum is that embraces all levels of skill with the the ZBrush application itself and the user’s inherent artistic talents outwith the software.
It also runs on the premise that if you need help you ask for it.

Artistic improvement and self awareness is one thing but judgement by users on personal subjective opinions is another.
This is not an artschool.

The forum therefore is inclusive of all skill levels.

Most of us mortals know that there is an enormous gulf between ourselves and the finest ZBrush artist’s exhibited within these pages but these same artists never cease to offer help and assistance for those of us struggling with what is a tricky application to master.

There are many here that are accomplished artists within other applications and other media but may in ZBrush terms be mere begginners,myself included.

It takes a certain amount of courage to put up work youself that you know is not the greatest thing in the world.
Imagine if you uploaded your 1st experiment and all the replies that came in told you it was trash.

The forum is as much about fun and support as it is about learning.

Criticism should be mainly left to One’s own self-criticism which comes through experience.

We should never feel intimadated to make mistakes or make fools of ourselves.

I love seeing everyone’s work on the site it lets you know who they are and it’s fun to watch people improve over time.
Myself excluded.

To see the finest work created by the ZBrush masters try following links to their personal galleries or visit the Pixologic site for further galleries and links

The Flooze

#9

as i see there is alot of confusion here.

i have never said that people shouldn’t post their works neither that they should be overloaded with negative critics.

as i know from other forums about other software packages, people honestly let you know what is nice and what is not as good. and actually i miss that.

every post i have been reading was like “yes beautiful…keep on” and comments like that doesn’t help anybody. they let you feel good. Let them know what is good and is more important what isn’t good and why. i think this place is important for reedback and feedback isn’t always positive. nobody really likes negative critics, but if your honest, it really helps yourself thinking about your works/images in another way. maybe you don’t see things like others. or you have forgotten something in your image. wouldn’t it be kind someone let you know ? Well I wouldn’t take it personal. i would be very happy that someone helped me out with an true and honest answer of what she/he thinks about my stuff.

And yes, in this place you can really learn. i know that for shure. if you feel atacked of what other people may say, why are you posting it then ? A new thread of an image is good, cause the community grows and beginners (like me) can pull alot out of it. When my first born zbrush image is done, “yippie”, i can’t wait what people say about it, positive or negative.

:small_orange_diamond:neomecha :small_orange_diamond:

#10

My father raised me like this, if you can’t get along with someone stay the hell away from them and if you can’t say something nice then keep your mouth shut. I heard those words my whole life…and teach the same to my family. I will now take my own advice,
Kind Regards,
Ron

#11

Well, for me, I have to post my crapy work when I ask questions so they know what I’m talking about.

#12

Well, I am actually a professor (not of art, but a professor none the less.) I have found that learning is greatly enhanced by positive reinforcement, than by negative punishment. Sure there are times when wrong is wrong, but in the arts, it is such a hard thing to judge. I am sure plenty of people told Picasso that people didn’t really look like the way he drew them.

Basically, I see this forum as a place to look for help with a specific problem you are having in obtaining the results you want. By the way, there is plenty of criticism (when asked for) it is just done in a positive manner. Criticism does not mean you have to degrade the work.

So sit back, post your stuff, ask for the criticism you want, give critisicm when asked for, and enjoy the forum.

#13

At first, upon reading through this thread, I wasn’t going to bother saying anything at all. However, it’s one of those things that sticks in one’s mind. Given that, I still wasn’t going to say anything. Then I read AxE’s reply: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well, for me, I have to post my crapy work when I ask questions so they know what I’m talking about. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So, I say this: :white_small_square: to refer to your (whoever you might be) own work as “crapy” really doesn’t do much. Other then belittle your own efforts. I’ve done it myself, to myself. It strikes me as a personal attack committed unto oneself. I’d suggest, in the kindest way possible that any/all of us here who do this, stop.
:small_blue_diamond: To refer to someones elses efforts as “crap” is not a critique of their work. Wandering through other boards, dedicated to other software packages, I have had the pleasure of reading such “critiques;” tactful, informative, enlightening to the recipient I’m sure. But then, judging by the tone of recipient’s response, I got the feeling they were hurt by such comments - possibly felt attacked, belittled, and hardly enlightened.
So, a suggestion, take or leave it as you will: Tactful critiques - well thought out, considered and considerate of the person to whom your/our comments are meant for.
I’m gonna shutup now :wink:

#14

“There is nothing in a caterpillar that tells you it’s going to be a butterfly.”
Buckminster Fuller

“If it’s painful for you to criticize your friends, you’re safe in doing it.
But if you take the slightest pleasure in it, that’s the time to hold your tongue.”
Alice Duer Miller

#15

Boozy,
(“If it’s painful for you to criticize your friends, you’re safe in doing it.
But if you take the slightest pleasure in it, that’s the time to hold your tongue.”
Alice Duer Miller)

OUTSTANDING quote. Words to live by, folks.

#16

dear neomecha,

I reread your post.

No I did not misunderstand you.

#17

That’s a VERY good quote Boozie!!!

“But if you take the slightest pleasure in it, that’s the time to hold your tongue.”

Learning is a day to day experience, which is why we are here.

(Good post Kathy!)

Upham :slight_smile:

#18

I cannot HOLD my tongue any longer…You use the word critic–or critics many times in your writing --many of those times the word “Critique”–is what you need to spell…But again, this isn’t an ‘English’ forum :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: We’ve had this type of thread before --once when Ed the Atom --was called ‘Gurgler’ he posted something much like this–It would be interesting to dig out and compare…but I haven’t got time to look for it–I have to get to the Dr. about this “tongue thing” :slight_smile:

#19

to filament9:

I personaly like my work, and feel that I am geting better as I practice more. I just said that so he could realize this form isnt just for experts and is for learning… or something like that :stuck_out_tongue:

#20

Hey All,

I’d like to say that when I look back on my first 3D images (4 years ago in a program called Infini-D) they are very, very poorly done. But I had a professor that encouraged me throughout the initial learning phases. I went through the “wow, look at all the things I can make chrome” and “I can make a volcano blue if I want to” phases. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s very fun to do these things at first. But had my professor been condescending and full of the typical negative reinforcement that you see at most art schools, I wouldn’t be where I’m at now (3D animator at the Medical College of Ohio) and would probably never had the chance to test my creative abilities in the 3D world.

Also, not everyone on this list is a professional. Some may even be kids that are just testing their creative wings. Let’em fly man. There are many ways to critique an artists’ work, but unless you know what kind of person they are and what the best feedback for that person is…then staying positive and encouraging the process is the only way to go (IMO).

Neomecha, I definately understand what you’re saying about letting people know what they can improve upon in their work, but some folks are more sensitive than others. Perhaps try to find a positive way to let them know what needs to be fixed…something like “I like what you’ve done to start with, but maybe you should try a little less specularity on the eyes…” Might keep you from getting rolecast on this list.

Cheers,
Jake