ZBrushCentral

Using ZBrush for RT3D Models

ZBrush Artworks
#1

I am having a slight problem using models created and textured in ZBrush with the real time 3D engine I use. Let me try to explain what is going on and please keep in mind that I am a newbie when it comes to ZBrush, so most likely I am missing something.

I have been creating simple models using ZSpheres, painting them in Texture Master and then exporting the final thing out to OBJ. Once I have the OBJ file I import it into 3D Studio MAX. Within 3D Studio MAX the model does not appear smooth, so I apply SMOOTH to it and it looks just fine. I then export the model out as 3DS to be brought into the real time 3D engine or the model editor for the engine (which has a similar preview mode).

When the model is in the editor for the engine or within the actual RT3D environment the model appears as if it is not smooth at all! All edges are clearly seen. I am guessing that I am missing something and that there is something I need to do before exporting from ZBrush so that I get a smoothed model into MAX. So, if there are any tips, please let me know.

#2

What does the smoothing function do in 3ds Max? I’m not too familiar with the program, so I don’t know what it does. I’m assuming it smooths out the normals, which Zbrush does not do per-say. If that’s the case, then I don’t know what you can do to improve the model. It’s odd though that you can’t get it to work with .3ds export.

#3

Yes, smoothing smooths out the normals so that you do not have hard edges between faces on your model.

This is getting more interesting. I can export from MAX, via a plugin, into the game engine’s native model format and it comes into the real time 3D environment nice and smooth. It is only the 3DS file that is refusing to smooth (so far).

I will have to play around some more.

#4

To see what your exported model will look like, turn on Transform>Quick 3D Edit. This disables ZBrush’s smoothing routines, showing just the polygons. To create additional smoothness without render-time subdivision, you need to increase the polygon count. Use Tool>Modifiers>Deformation>Divide, and follow it with the Smooth deformation. This quadruples the number of polygons every time you use it, and will give you a smoother exported mesh.

#5

Also check to see that the ingame model is welded together. If you can get a vertex count in game, and compare it to what is in max they should be the same. If the one in game has a lot more verts then they’ve all become unwelded.

This is just a guess based on limited use of .3ds files in max. If you have another option than using .3ds I would use it.

#6

In OBJ mode zbrush exports models that are unwelded it seems like to me …

To fix this unsmoothing problem… import into milkshape… Press CNTRL-A to select all… and then control-W to weld all…

In 3d studio it autosmooths gaps… in realtime engine you are seeing thousands of polys and not 1 mesh… this is why it is not smoothing correctly in realtime and why it is looking ok in 3ds…

Look at my website… there is an eyeball statue there in VRML a gargoyle too!..with smoothing :slight_smile: viewpoint works too…

Milkshape is your best friend when it comes to RTRS…

:slight_smile:

in 3ds there is probably a simular command look for weld all neighboring vertexes… I dont use 3ds…

http://s91842597.onlinehome.us/

#7

BTW,

I am going to make a free VTM tutorial on this subject…probably later today…

I want Gamestudio kids to have some realy nice FREE recources when it comes to Zbrush…

Zbrush has realy changed my life… I want to share this for free with all kids :slight_smile:

Dealing with 3d gamestudio, Unreal titles, and also vquake titles… all have little tricks and tequniques :slight_smile:

#8

Aurick,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>To see what your exported model will look like, turn on Transform>Quick 3D Edit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. Thanks for the tip.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>To create additional smoothness without render-time subdivision, you need to increase the polygon count.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. This is definately not the answer. We are talking about RT3D (Real Time 3D). The last thing we want to do is increase polycount when we don’t need too. Most 3D engines auto-smooth the mesh in real time just like MAX does when you apply a SMOOTH modifier (not MESH SMOOTH, which adds polygons). The 3D engine I use normally displays the mesh smoothed. So the problem was with how MAX exported the 3DS file or how the RT3D editor imported the 3DS file. Exporting from MAX in the game engine’s native format solves the problem.

#9

The 3ds gamestudio exporter probably automaticaly triangulates the polys and preforms the weld I am talking about…

That is a nice workflow Dan, I might look into purchaseing 3ds in the future…The way I have to do it is quite time consumeing…

#10

Hi Dan which 3D engine are you talking about?

Emax

#11

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hi Dan which 3D engine are you talking about?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

3D GameStudio.

But I use several others in my business.

#12

Zbrush isn’t really designed for low poly modeling and it would be a little nutty to try and use it to make all the low poly models for something. I suppose you could but there’s really no point to use something that isn’t fully equipped and focused for the task. Where it excels is sculpt like features for high poly models… although because of the generalness of the algorithms once again you don’t want to use those out of the box so to speak, but use it for a normal, or deformation map or something of the sort.

oh, and it’s also fantastic for texturing.

#13

Hi Dan thanks very much¡
Can you share some work or examples?
Thanks in advance
Emax

#14

It is verry possible!, and I do it all the time! with LO poly models…

You have to UV map the model manualy, and use the 2d mode to paint… and when you want to check your work, MRGBZ grab the screen, and apply it to your model to inspect…

I have better luck with Zbrush than I do with deeppaint 3d… I wish it was legal to sell my deep paint 3d licence, I only use Zbrush, Lithunwrap, and paintshoppro for fileconversion!!!

In 2d it is easy to make a bump map ,spectacular map , alpha mask map, ECT!!!

you can even use the MRGBZ grabbed alpha for some purposes!

ZBRUSH is awesome when it comes to lo-poly stuff… If you use it strategicaly…

#15

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Zbrush isn’t really designed for low poly modeling<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two things:

1 - Then why would ZBrush have a whole section on their web site about using ZBrush for games (i.e. low-poly models)?

2 - I was not talking about modeling, in any case. I was talking about the fact that the models were coming into the engine not smoothed. My main purpose in using ZBrush for RT3D was for texturing the 3D models, which is one of the things Pixologic pitches ZBrush as being very good at:
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbrush/featuretour/featuretourfr.html

Click the TEXTURING and GAME DEVELOPMENT links.

#16

AUV tiles work as well, sometimes better…

It depends on the model… and how the model is constructed, and also if you are useing the AUV ratio properly…

With the Smoothing Off, sometimes you will get a bit of distortion on Ultra Low poly things…

It is all true what they say in advertisement…

#17

I paint Low poly stuff in 3d also…

#18

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It is all true what they say in advertisement…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know its true. I was just replying to travart’s comments about it being “nutty” to use ZBrush for low-poly models. ZBrush advertises ZBrush stating that low-poly is one of its usages.

Egomaxim,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Can you share some work or examples?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of my RT3D work is in level design and texture creation. I have very little low-poly work when it comes to models. That is one reason I bought ZBrush … to help in texturing them. You can see some of my work on my web site:

Web2D3

Most of the work shown there is out of date by many months and the entire site is in a need of updating.

#19

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Two things:

1 - Then why would ZBrush have a whole section on their web site about using ZBrush for games (i.e. low-poly models)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

man you must be right, I’ve never heard of anything called advertising.

:rolleyes:

As I said, you are welcome to try it but even must freeware poly modelers would be more appropriate to make the base model then current zbrush, it isn’t made for work flow it’s made for creativeness right now. A great deal of the truly amazing works here were done on a base model made in another program. Things that are pure zbrush and come from an unoptimized model tend to have that pulled, pushed, alien with lots of flaps look.

That said, it’s a great program for texturing and high res model details. I just think you’re trying to overextend the program in its current state if you expect it to efficiently handle optimized base models.

#20

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As I said, you are welcome to try it but even must freeware poly modelers would be more appropriate to make the base model then current zbrush<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand what you are saying but, once again, I am not using ZBrush to model low-poly models (though I could). I am using it to TEXTURE them and to paint them in real-time. ZBRush is just fine for this.