ZBrushCentral

To all established artists who ignore us Newbies

Community
#1

I’ve noticed that all the comments and critiques seem to go to the established members of this community

You professionals should offfer the same amount of crits and advice to those who are not as accomplished as you yet. it’s looking to me like this board is becoming a back patting opportunity for 3d elites. Everybody sucked when they started out, and honestly, it’s kind of discouraging to post something, get like 200 views, and no replys: not for silly attention, but I beleive that established artists should give back a bit: if you see a model that’s obviously beginner, COMMENT!!! How hard is it? What works? what doesn’t? what would you suggest as a method?

Like I mentionned previously, everyone sucked at first, and everyone got better by receiving COMMENTS, CRITIQUES, and POINTERS from better artists.

When one works one’s butt off, does the best they can at their present skill level, presents their work, and gets ignored all around…very discouraging. Makes us wonder if we are wasting our time.

Must be nice to have been born a superstar zbrush artist.

#2

Agreed

#3

Bitter much? :wink:

If it makes you feel any better, I tend to ignore everyone with equal opportunity.

By way of advice though, I would just tell you to keep practicing and improving. When you’re posting regular work of high enough quality, you’ll start attracting more attention.

#4

Dude, i’m in the boat your talking about - not established, not amazing, pretty much ignored, but I disagree with your sediment.

Propose a solution to the problem you’re wining about.
The obvious solution to me is to start writing fair and insightful critiques for your skill peer group. Hopefully you will find they will reciprocate in kind.

If you care to review my posting history, you will find that that is pretty much what I have been up to since joining.

I do not begrudge the fantastic artists on this forum not commenting on every stray post (mine inclued). Participation in this community is voluntary last I checked. As a teacher I can appreciate how hard it is to diplomatically admonish the work of folks less skilled than yourself. It’s just not naturally something people are inclined to do without an exchange of value.

#5

I couldn’t agree with you more meanboythecat.
But as I found out myself people aren’t so hot at giving critique.
You can be polite in your posts and be detailed in descriptions but it won’t get you much attention.
People usually browse this place when they’re working or they just want to relax and enjoy some pretty pictures. So when they see someone who needs critique
they might want to give some pointers but they’re too bored to do it.
You better invest on some online course or something and just try out stuff as much as you can.
It’s better to hear a critique from your teacher rather than little or no comments.
If you keep posting stuff here you’ll only get disappointed by the lack of interest.
Try to get that extra push you need to keep working on it somewhere else. You family, your teacher, your colleagues.
And don’t overestimate these kind of sites. People produce a very specific kind of art which isn’t much of a big deal.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s amazing to see some great anatomy or some awesome huge monster. But you can only go that far with just that.
You only have one piece of the puzzle, and that’s just about it.
So don’t just focus on the creation of one amazing super sculpt. You need the whole package. Composition, colour theory, etc etc.
Don’t stress over it too much. Most of us are in the same place you are so relax and enjoy the ride!!!

#6

no comment is a good sign you need to improve…btw the only way to improve is to make those crits yourself :wink:

#7

I feel bad about my first comment, as I may have been a little too flippant. While I won’t be goaded or guilt-ed into giving you crits (I owe you nothing, and it is not my job to train you as an artist…not that you’d even want me to…I am remarkably average), I will give you some general reasons why some people receive little in the way of feedback.

1) People wouldn't know where to start. There is a threshold on work where it stops being a matter of "I think you could improve this, and this", and it becomes, "Go study anatomy for a year, fill up a few sketchbooks, and come see me again". Also, try to resist the urge to post every early stage of your work. Post work that is more refined and less soft, where you have really committed to form. It makes it easier for people to latch onto specific aspects. There is little to critique or comment on about a soft lump of playdough. 2) You must attract people's attention. People don't owe you their attention...you must steal it ;). Some subject matter is going to stand out more than others. Warhammer-esque game characters, fantasy heroes and monsters, Hyper-muscled superheroes, and space marines in power armor, in T-poses, are all good fun , but you must understand, they are a dime a dozen now a days, and tend to bore people. If you want to attract attention with that kind of subject matter, it had better be *really* good. Give some thought to how you want to try and make your work stand out. Consider not posting a Tpose. Put a lot of thought into a pose, and how you want to imbue that character with an abundance of personality to try to make more of an impact on people. You can post a Tpose to try and get anatomy feedback, but try to keep in mind point #1. Consider a settings for your character. Consider color, texture, design...anything that you think you can "hook" people with. How are you going to "sell" your work?

The more remarkable the work you post, the more likely you are to draw people’s attention, the more likely you are to get feedback. Once people start looking at your work, the more likely they are to continue looking at subsequent work you post.

Read this post about how to make thumbnails that attract people's attention: [http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=73639](http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=73639) If people aren't clicking on your thumbnails, they aren't commenting on your work. 3) Don't confuse being a novice to the software with being a novice artist. Not everyone "sucked", as you put it, when they first started with the software. Prior to that, they had spent *years* developing as an artist, and that experience showed in the new tool they were using. Students that enroll in art classes in college (where they *pay* people to critique their work and train them, as opposed to here where people owe you nothing) are not beginning artists. They have already spent years of study on their own. Have realistic expectations and an honest appraisal of where you are. People don't just pick up a guitar and start producing output that is suitable for critique in a matter of weeks or even months. This hearkens back to point number 1. 4) Don't make expectations based on reaction to popular/established artists.


They have likely paid their dues in some fashion, produce work that attracts attention, or maybe they are just popular because they get all the girls. Life isn’t fair. Either way, you cannot use them as a metric for the type of of attention you think you should be getting. Each case is different, and the internet is a strange, random place.

5) Nobody here owes you anything. There are ways to make a name for yourself, and attract more attention to your work, and solicit feedback for your work. Making a whiny rant post about it is probably the opposite of the way you want to go.
#8

What 3D elite? If anyone thinks he’s elite he’s a moron. Perhaps people with jobs don’t have enough time to comment on everyone’s submissions.

And people will always confuse novices to software, I got used to it, because they don't know what you know. Perhaps showing your art...but no, I tried that as well ;) Some people are pigs, they bite and don't let go even if you're on top of your game. C'est la vie, and I think it's ok.
#9

I can only comment from my perspective.

I rarely post anything unless I think it’s finished, or I want some help/advice/nudging. The biggest problem with this site, as compared to other sites (non Zbrush) I post on, is that there are too many members and too many posts for people to notice things.

I have said this many times before, We need a part of the site that is either dedicated to beginners/learners, or even WIPs. That way, the busy, professional, experts can dip in if they want, or stay clear of it if they don’t. But I think it would result in more people commenting from an advice/support point of view.

Just my opinion but there it is.

#10

I agree that I would like to see a separate WIP forum and a “finished work/making of” forum. But I don’t think it would necessarily result in more feedback on WIPs…it might even result in less, as many people may not go out of their way to view “unfinished” work.

At the end of the day, life isn’t fair, and there is still just a law of the jungle at work. The truth is that there is simply a level you work must reach before it starts attracting much serious or useful feedback…let alone praise. I’ve certainly learned this the hard way, and posted my share of goose eggs over the years on various sites. That, in itself, is a learning process that everyone goes through.

You must earn attention for your work…even to get it critiqued… and believe me, you wouldn’t want it any other way.

In the meantime though, if you really, really want a crit, it would be best to make a thread with that in the title, like “Please Crit My Anatomy”. You can’t rely on people clicking through your thumbnail, as it is quickly gone, and it may not interest casual viewers.

#11

Who gives a **** man? Really? Are you bitching about pros on this board not responding with insightful crits to every single “work in progress” you post? Guess what dude, they have jobs in the industry and don’t have time to respond to every single little thumbnail that pops up in the second row on the almighty ZBrush Central. Get better with the tools and seek out advice on your own. Pissing and moaning about people that have fantastic work will get you absolutely nowhere. Take all of that time and energy it took to post this thread and get better as an artist if you want to get some attention.

If you’re plopping all of your proverbial eggs in the basket here at ZBC, and getting hurt feelings because nobody raves about your work, then maybe you should seek out a new endeavor. Thin skin isn’t going to serve you well.

#12

Relax man.
He was polite, you don’t have to be so aggressive.

#13

He wasn’t that polite. His post was laden with sarcasm, bitterness and
and entitlement.

Polite is “Hi, I’d like to get a little more feedback on my work than I’m getting right now…any tips?”

What we got is “it’s looking to me like this board is becoming a back patting opportunity for 3d elites”, “COMMENT!!! How hard is it?”, and “Must be nice to have been born a superstar zbrush artist.”

#14

guys wat meanboy is saying doesnt look that agresive to me…comon i m 19…and sometime newbies like me who dont have proper guidance or cannot afford these things happen …its nnormal…he not accusing the better artis.(my fav is alex oliver.)…he might just need sum help…or sum guidance…imajine learning a car by all urself…agreed that we can do that…but humans have tendency to sum times burst out their thoughts and thats wat he did…it would be better if we people just help him…instead of yelling at him…at the end we r all humans…we all think the same…
peace…
meanboy work hard and hard and hard my friend…crits wil com when they have to…

#15

Granted, but you’ll have to grant there’s a tutorial forum here on zbrush central and questions and troubleshooting forum as well. Artists aren’t obligated to comment other peoples works.

#16

The fact that he posted a new thread just to complain is going to get some fire. The reason artists get positive attention for their work on ZBC or any other forum, be it online or in the real world, is because they absolutely deserve it. I’m not being aggressive, I’m trying to lay it out the way it is. There is certainly nothing wrong with seeking guidance. If you’re looking for advice on how to be a better artist, in any medium, then you learn by asking the right questions of the right people. Or…god forbid…learning something from the countless threads posted by the “3D Elites” explaining exactly how they achieved the pieces that earned them the top row status here.

I don’t know…maybe the thread was just started out of frustration. Ughh…who cares.

#17

Agree totally with Gordon, the main problem is that being this site a very big comunity sometimes even lot of great works (the kind of you look at them and ask yoursefl why nobody replied) disappear from the images row in minutes, and for the same reason every user cannot go digging through every single post to look at all the works posted. Being said that, it’s the same obvious that every great artist post calls a lot of feedbacks, simply bacause, as said by someone else, all those artists already paid all their deeds to be this sort of nucleus of attention.

#18

a word of advice this is not the way to get attention if anything its good way to be ignored or get a whole lot of flack back from the zbrush community…

the only advice i have for you is you get back what you put in…
little to no effort means scant or no comments…
alot of effort and dedication then the work stands on its own…

and im sure all of us that have been here for a while no what i mean by that…:wink:

#19

Everyone here at some point learned this by himself.
The mayority probably without internet.

Times were never better for someone to improve his technical and artistic
skill.
You have 4 mayor 3d forums, you have countless genius works free to view
in many cases you have a work in progress thread for it, you have countless
tutorials, you can read gazillion gabillion critics on work that is not that strong.

If the lack of critics in your one thread on one 3d forum is holding you
back to improve as an artist you have a wrong reason.
If your motivated by a true passion and fun with 3d work you should
be well able to critic yourself by comparing to other artists.
If your not willing to put in that bit of effort you should understand that
most people who have learned it through effort and lots of trial and error
wont be to keen to extensivly comment on your work as they know you can
find out most obvious things yourself if you decide not to take the path
of blaming a lack of comments for a lack of dedication and work.

Heck the first comment i ever got i gave myself because i was so pissed
but what gives with time you will maybe get better
and you will have more people that know you on the forums.
If you participate that is.

cheers

#20

I think Disco Stu ha summed it up but I think others on this thread have offered some very useful advice. It’s hard to get started on ZBC and it makes you feel like you have failed when you don’t get a comment. I understand it can make you feel low because of the time you spend on a piece that no one seems interested in. You CAN’T let that get you down.

I always say turn you negitive passion into positive passion and take it out on your work. There are many talented artists on here who will eventually help you out but you need to get to know people :smiley:

It is the hardest board to get any respect on and people crit very harshly sometimes BUT that is the main reason I stick with ZBC because it is so hard to get noticed.

Oh and I am an artist who is not technical (I have only really used Zbrush in a commercial sense for about 1 and half years) I try hard to translate my traditional skills into 3d and sometimes I DO fail :smiley:

As some of the others said - start a sketchbook and start it for you. Don’t think of it as gathering fame and respect use it as a tool to learn and every now and again a ‘zbrush superstar’, when he or she is not busy, will leave a comment :wink:

Finally I will just say when you do get advice it is very good on here so stick with it.:wink: :+1: