ZBrushCentral

tips on painting in Zbrush

it’s been ages since I last had a go at posting advice on Zbrush (last zscript I made was the first “human hand creation zscript” - you realise how much things have progressed since then)

to the point now. I usually see people on the forum modelling a good model, maybe texture it too, and then render it on a black background and call it a day.

with all due respect to each one’s personal aesthetics on colour, and knowing how useful it is to render on black (it hides many faults, and generally looks cool, especially to newbies), I have to speak my mind;

a black monochrome background only looks like a hole. it isn’t a background. it doesn’t look professional (except in very particular areas of illustration). usually when I create a foreground model (or painting, for that matter) that I like, I try to make it stand out using the background.

this background may be a plane3D placed right behind my scene, with a “flat color” material. I then paint on it using 2D or 2.5D brushes. remember, 2.5D brushes don’t work on the flat material. you have to at least have a fastshader material on your plane3D to Zadd to/Zsubstract from its surface. I prefer the background to start out in a non-black colour (gray or white work best) and try to fill the whole canvas with small brush strokes. that is, I don’t just leave it one-coloured. using a non-black background allows you to see the areas you haven’t yet filled.

the same applies when you want to achieve a black background. start with white! and then remember how you used to fill white papers with black markers when you were kids. slowly, and with non-continuous strokes. you can try painting black in a radial or diagonal motion, or in crosshatches. the results are much more lively and painterly than what I call “the uniform Zbrush black background ™”.
exercise in the technique. you’ll see that no matter how cool you thought your model on black was at first, a proper background totally transforms it into a professional-looking piece. or at least, it shows you tried, it shows you experimented, it shows you didn’t give up, you didn’t just do what everyone else does -namely, modelling something and letting go.

zbrush is chock-full of capabilities. the new version is expected to bring new ones into play. and frankly, if you don’t try to make a real composition in Zbrush, you’ll never be motivated enough to use all its capabilities.

here’s a badge I made for my favourite arachnid, Spiderman. note that I liked the simple sphere3D model on (1)(textured with texturemaster)

however, I wanted to pursue something better. on (4) is the stage where I felt more confident that my painting was done.
notice that on (2) I put a dark red plane3D behind the spider-mask. using 2D and 2.5D brushes, I managed to give my plane3D a textile-like quality. also note that I don’t use “colorenhancer” and “highliter” because these brushes don’t have a clue what hue I’m trying to get. If I want a lighter blue, I pick it up myself from the colour tab.

hope these were at least a little bit helpful. I hope I will see fewer “black-background” works from now on.

oh, and here’s the material I used for spidey’s mask.

spiderman.ZMT

kisses

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> any art that induces emotion, whether positive or negative, is useful art <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darksprite - digital art
my renderosity gallery

Hi Christos,
I read through your advice, and I must say that I would agree. The images posted illustrate the idea clearly, and quite effectively.

EDITED: This comment is meant as another viewpoint and is not targeted towards Christos. All references to “you” or any other ambiguos entity are in fact refering to the general audience. Thank you.

It has always been my thought that a piece should be approached from a wholistic view. My earlier works lacked depth (and I am still working on this). They were proliferant in their use of the flat color background. This in itself is not a “bad” thing. It is in my opinion a sign of a person who is learning. A great many people on this forum are not trained or schooled artists. They are in fact much like myself…they dabbled in drawing as a kid. Learned what they could then grew away from it as they grew older only to rediscover the lost “love” again with the aid of ZBrush. This software does a wonderful thing. It gives people powerful tools that can enhance and unlock their latent abilities. It can also add a high polish to what would otherwise be just above average work. That is not to say ZBrush is doing all the work. No. ZBrush can make a good drawing look great and it can make a great drawing look just plain awesome! But it all depends on how far you wish to push yourself in learning the software. And in learning it you do become a better artist. Technical skills will always be a learned thing. Vision…well that in my opinion is a natural ability that must be honed. ZBrush can help in that journey.

The black background phenomena is not indicative to ZBrush alone. It can be witnessed in other apps as well. In Bryce for example the metalic sphere (or other similar object) floating over an endless ocean with a bright alien sky is a prime example. It is the easiest thing for new people to learn and shows off the great power of the software. The same is true for Poser…naked poser chicks standing on a flat background…they are posted all over Renderosity. This is a stage all new users seem to go through. It is also a stage that most grow out of. My words of wisdom on this are that if you feel your work is complete with a black (or other color) background then so be it. It indicates you are still working on pushing beyond the bounds so to speak. It will not make people think any the less of you. I do however encourage everyone to step out further…explore…incorporate something into the background. Whether it is a simple gradient, fog, or blurred terrain…try it. Your work will excell in the process. Look at your favorite artists. Valejo and Frazetta come immediately to mind. Notice the backgrounds? They are not necessarily overly detailed but they add enough “ummph” to the image to make it look finished. Imagine those images without the backgrounds. They would not have as great an appeal as they do with the backgrounds.

I have seen some wonderful work here in the forum. I have seen newer and older members alike growing and expanding their talents. It is a wonderful and exciting thing. I encourage you to push yourself. Try something new. Sit back and critique yourself then dive back in and get jiggy with it!! Peace and love to you all! :+1: :+1: :+1:

it isn’t at all about what people think of you. it’s about being motivated to make something that isn’t trademarked.

it’s not about using a complex background. the two you mentioned don’t use ONE hue when they paint their simple (to your eye) backgrounds. and I already said: if you want to have a black background, earn it. paint it thoroughly by hand. laziness doesn’t always mean “a simple yet effective background”. the default monochromatic black isn’t a background, and that’s that. you’ll find that paintings without even a rudimentary background don’t get into fine art galleries. theres’s some rules, my friends. and though noone expects you to follow them before you learn about them, however after someone has told you about them, you can’t ignore them. you may want to break these rules in order to make something revolutionary, but I doubt a monochromatic black background is good for anything better than a test render to check your progress.

attacking the idea of non-monochromatic black backgrounds is plain lack of adventurous spirit. try it. if you don’t like it, revert to your old technique. somehow I feel you won’t.

oh, and I’m self-taught too, for what this statement is worth

huhh??? :confused:

Edit: Let me clarify something: The comment wasn’t directed at you Christos. I wasn’t arguing against anything you said. It was meant for the general audience. Another viewpoint. It was not meant to criticize or offend you.

noone was offended. it’s all good

“it’s not about using a complex background.”

Does it matter? Anything beyond a flat fill could be considered infinitely more complex than the default black.

“the two you mentioned don’t use ONE hue when they paint their simple (to your eye) backgrounds.”

The statement was a simplification. And thanks for the implied insult.

"and I already said: if you want to have a black background, earn it. paint it thoroughly by hand. laziness doesn’t always coincide with “simple yet effective backgrounds”.

I agree with the “earning” part whatever that means. In fact anyone painting a background or constructing one for that matter is “earning” it. Again thanks for the implied insult.

“the default monochromatic black isn’t a background, and that’s that. you’ll find that paintings without even a rudimentary background don’t get into fine art galleries.”

I agree totally.

“theres’s some rules, my friends. and though noone expects you to follow them before you learn about them, however after someone has told you about them, you can’t ignore them. you may want to break these rules in order to make something revolutionary,…”

I do hope that in referencing “you” that you are not targeting me but refering to people in general (which I think you are when you follow it with “friends” because if you are intending it towards me it shows how little you know about me. :wink:

“…but I doubt a monochromatic black background is good for anything better than a test render to check your progress.”

I do indeed use it for this purpose

“attacking the idea of non-monochromatic black backgrounds is plain lack of adventurous spirit. try it. if you don’t like it, revert to your old technique. somehow I feel you won’t.”

I didn’t attack anything. I am always open to new ideas. And I do incorporate the “non-monochroatic black backround”. I just don’t post everything I do on the forum for one reason or another.

when I want to insult someone, I use their name in my sentences. never implied any insult against you M, and please stop insinuating I’m belligerent. if you like to feel attacked, it’s a personal taste. but now is it an insult if I state that the above post doesn’t express anything but a persecution complex? you yourself said you don’t care what people think of you. and really, I didn’t so much as try to insult you. and I still don’t care to do it.

Christos,

Thank you for your painting suggestions and advice. I had never thought about painting a black background, and I like it. It is actually a good place to start, as simple abstract shades of gray are easier to create than a defined composition.

Mentat7, your viewpoint is appreciated too.

The positive aspect of images, advice, tutorials, and opinions posted on this forum is that they are here for everybody to access, apply, or ignore as the individual sees fit.

I’d rather be a part of a forum where people feel comfortable respectfully expressing themselves, even if the occasional phrase or word rubs somebody wrong, than one where you are hesitant to do so.

Thanks again and carry on!

This is pointless. Your words always contain an edge to them whether intentional or not. And that fact alone means much of what you say could be taken as being inflammatory and indirectly insulting. I don’t think you are beligerant. To the contrary I do not believe you are anything other than who you are and that would be Christos. There’s no anger here Christos. Just observation. And thank you for not caring to insult me.

I am going to carefully focus my eyes on posts one and three, the posts that are very informative. :+1:

(The rest isn’t needed. Please, don’t argue. :))

Christos, I saw your post about the black background in another thread, and tried it. I think you’re right that it works better to give it some work, even if that is just to paint an almost-black background.

(BTW, I like that Spidey! :D)

right on, Muvlo, and the material is PRECIOUS :slight_smile:

  • juandel

[EDITED BY EZ]
Message is Deleted

It is really amazing what can develop out of a simple suggestion.
The way some people say things or write just come across as confrontational, implied or not.
But since I am not in the same class as you guys, this cockroach will stay out of this Cock Fight.

I like black backgrounds! All great Mexican Velvet paintings have Black backgrounds, has anyone seen a velvet painting with out one?
I rest my case… :smiley:

[EDITED BY MODERATOR]

RC, that Elvis Velvet Painting is lovely. :wink:

Thank you for posting it. thankyou…thankyouverymuch!!

If anyone wants to buy a BVP here’s some links!
http://www.laurahazlett.com/
www.copronason.com/Galleries/Blackvelvet/detail/velvet_leetiggreenskirtNC.html

Thanks DeeVee for lightening things up and EZ for making me laugh out loud! :smiley:

I’m a bit hesitant to get involved in what has become a rather heated exchange… but what the heck? As someone with no artistic background or credentials whatever, I feel ideally qualified to add my own perspective on this debate. :wink:

First I agree that a pure black background is “no background”. However, I do not necessarily see this as a matter of laziness. In many cases on this Forum, the contributor is providing the image to illustrate a point of technique or as an experiment as part of their own learning curve. If that is the purpose, then it may be simply superfluous to requirements to provide an elaborate background, and the failure to do so should not be considered laziness but simply pragmatic.

A different reason why I, and possibly others, sometimes dispense with a background is when my primary use for the image is for desktop wallpaper or similar display. If the object is essentially a non-rectangular model rather than a “painting”, I often prefer to let it stand alone in an otherwise black window. Again not laziness: a matter of conscious choice for the intended purpose. Others may not aesthetically agree with that choice, but that does not make it invalid or lazy.

Whilst agreeing that paintings with entirely black backgrounds do not (generally) find their way into art galleries, it is arguable that a better analogy in some cases of 3D models on the Forum is with a statue or bust than with a painting. And their real-world equivalents do normally lack a background other than the exhibiting space itself which is not (usually) constructed by the artist.

To “properly paint” an almost monochromatic black background is undoubtedly a valid technique in cases where there is a genuine aesthetic purpose, but to expect people to do so catechistically for no better reason than to “earn” the painting sounds a mite pedantic to me.

Having said all that, I do agree that if (and only if) the purpose of the exercise is to produce the electronic equivalent of a finished painting, then it seems unquestionably essential that the background be fully developed as an integral part of the piece.

So how’s that for a piece of fence-squatting? :slight_smile:

Very well spoken flycatcher! I agree with all that you said… especially the part about not adding a completed background to every post, since most are WIPs for me (being relative new). Also, being new, I depend on getting the tips and feedback about what I’m trying to do here. If I followed cneofotistos advice about not posting a work until it has a finished background, I probably would never post anything and never learn a thing. Or I would have to just post my 2D paintings instead of any models. I agree a background sometimes makes models more interesting… but get real! Just my 2 cents worth.

oh yes, undoubtedly true. I agree with flycatcher. I never intended to make people feel alienated about posting unfinished stuff or newbie stuff.

and besides, it’s a tip not an order. take it or leave it. I never felt that my taste in paintings should be everyone elses, and besides, illustration -and I mentioned it- usually does rely on pure black or white backgrounds. photography and fine art, on the other hand don’t. but it’s my firm belief that some of the gory heads and/or beasts on this forum, even though they look ok as illustrational takes on an idea, would look incredibly better with a background. don’t take my word for it, look at Ken B’s or Southern’s renders. or aurick’s, or StevieZrae’s for that matter. I’m sure they like black backgrounds as much as you and me. but they go for something extra, and it does make a difference. if you don’t like the extra bit, don’t do it -laziness or choice. just don’t label it useless.

Whew!!!
This is getting silly!
C. You made a good suggestion about making backgrounds more interesting. I’ll give it a try sometime. Someone posted a gradiated background a few months back…it looked really
cool. Can anyone else remember who it was? Because they did say how they did it. Just a thought. :rolleyes: