Hey all,
Has anyone noticed the subdivision modeling tools here? www.flamefx.com
It looks so promising!!
I have been using both max and zbrush. And guess what I think? Zbrush which is a unique modeling tool, should also have this type of modeling tools. Wouldn’t it be powerful?
But it seems like I am pretty late to have seen this.
Cheers
weve been asking for geometry editing tools for a while, but those of onion flame are, a huge mess. man look at all those buttons and options. if someone only thought up a CLEAN and intuitive interface for a change. it almost looked like they were going to launch a space shuttle with all those options.
ambient-whisper,
It is not that bad man, you can use them from keyboard and they will be just as fast. Believe me I have been modeling in max for nearly 2 years, but the poly modeling workflow is really slow. Take the example of selecting multiple continuous faces… you need to select 1-by-1 which is very slow. When using orionflame press a key, select the whole loop, or a limited one.
I am not saying it is the best, but for max modelers it is a true gift.
By the way which program are you currently using for the most time? I have seen your mirai tutorials. Genious work man! Seriously if it was a dvd or something, I would be the first one to buy it!
thanks.
about the dvd. im really not sure man. lately i have been focusing my energies on getting back to traditional art, ( well 2d in any form, and some super sculpey stuff ) because i have been neglecting the area for way too long and its starting to really show. i definitely dont feel as confident in my 2d skills as i used to, and i want to improve too because i feel like i’ve hit a wall.
with this in mind, im not sure if it would be best to do a dvd ( actually im thinking of doing a cgworkshop over at cgtalk ), or focus on improving my skills.
Ambient-whisper,
I am really sure you will do great in traditional stuff too. Your timelapses are really very inspiring and I hope you have them recorded as real time in your hd? They are very neat.
One thing I wonder is: you use zbrush now?, but don’t you ever miss the geomety editing style modeling? You were the mirai guru, who uses it REALLY well. What happened to mirai? I see zbrush is a very powerful app, but editing geometry is also a different magic. You were casting that spell very good.
I always support traditional arts, but not very good in those myself. How good/fast do you feel they help in digital stuff? Just wondered.
Havent heard cgworkshop, but whatever you do as a dvd/book/or any other material, I will definetely buy it, and recommend it to anyone that is into 3d.
Cheers!
well the reason i feel that doing traditional stuff will help me is because you get to practice many times faster than making a model, or 2. so you get to experiment at a much faster pace, learn new things while doing it and apply it to new things. how fast can you draw a head in 2d, while how long will it take you to construct it in 3d? or how long will it take you to make a composition in 2d versus making a composition in 3d?
im not after improving my technique in traditional arts ( but thats always nice too ). im mostly after improving my knowledge in different areas, and get better at painting, which ive always wanted to get better at.
i do use zbrush but i dont use it alone, because it has its limitations ( or things it doesnt do very well ), like working with multiple objects, adding objects to a sculpture while maintaining the levels of subdivision on each piece, etc. which i really feel is a limiting part of the process, and slows down a lot of things. what id like to see is all those things so i can do things like import a whole model with a number of pieces and texture all of them with their own texture maps ( with multiple channels ).
i mean, think of a model with over 30 pieces, which you want to texture. bringing each one in separately will take forever if you work in the current single object/texture workstyle. it comes to the point where you dont feel like bothering with the process because its full of so many speed bumps.
but thats my rant on zb :).
to tell you the truth i dont miss the editing style at all, because all that tweaking makes my fingers ache 
it is accurate and nice, but on large models it doesnt work. ( hence why zbrush is popular for that kind of style of editing 
)
but i dont use mirai anymore either. id love to and will most likely come back to it if theres a new version. its morph system is still inbeatable, but its a pain in the butt to use on windows xp because it always fails to export/import. i did learn xsi at work though, and been poly modelling in clay for the last 2-3 years now. its a mess to work between so many apps, which is why i still hope to see mirai make a comeback.
I think you are right, I am not sure what truely gifted guys like you feel while modeling in computer, but I am sure it makes the process easier.
Knowledge is power and it comes with age, I mean there are too mang things that could be used in cg, like drawing, sculpting, painting, cinematography. I am talking about all aspects of cg. If I am not wrong, you are concentrating on modeling, right? I believe you are doing this more than 10 years? I haven’t seen any recent art from you (except the zbrush video), and I am curious what you have in your home pc. You must be at the top, man! Or is becoming good at modeling a newer ending process?
Yeah I was thinking like this: editing style feels accurate, something you know where every cut/split goes, etc.
That’s cool that you’re trying to further your traditional work, Martin. I definitely understand how you can loose track of 2D abilities while working in 3D. Before I started learning 3D, back in 2003, all I did was 2D work. I really enjoy it, and I think that’s one of the reasons why I was able to pick up 3D in a relatively short time, even though I didn’t actually have a lot of time to study.
However, I’ve come to like working in 3D much more than 2D. I could spend 8 hours on a complex drawing, and many more painting it. I’ve even spent 200 hours on doing some murals once. So I’ve spent a lot of time doing drawing and painting. But for some reason, I just feel 3D is more a fit for me. Especially now that I’ve really figured out how to get these programs to work my way! LOL
I think in time, I will definitely be able to sketch in Zbrush just as fast as I can in 2D. But the fact that I can actually use that 3D sketch to use as a reference model is much greater than any 2D abilities IMO. Although doing quick 2D thumbnail sketches are definitely easier to do than 3D work. So I’m not saying 3D is always better, just in more refined character sketching.
Personally I really like to see people trying to better themselves. I’ve seen too many people get good at one thing, and never improve, never learn anything new, and just keep on doing what they always do. I could never do that. I got to keep learning, or at least bettering myself. Especially if I want to get a job doing this stuff.
yeah i agree that there are definitely ways where 3d is more fun and can help in visualizing more than 2d, but once you reach that wall where you want to start to pose your creatures, add cloth to pieces, and colour everything in, then doing a 3d version then theres just so many speed bumps that come with the process that it becomes irritating after a while.
uving stops you from texturing right away. you could use auto uvs, but theres a good reason why people still like to use photoshop for texture work, and that is because the photoshop editing tools are not available in any of our current 3d painting packages, as well as layer management and such.
then theres rigging of our characters/mechanisms. cloth simulations, etc.
none of which you have to worry about when just getting down to the basics. except ofcourse… perspective,interactivity,editing which 3d does a lot better than any ruler, or eyeing will do.
i dont know, i just look at it like this. as long as you have technical limitations, you will always have workaround that youll need to go through to reach your goal. some of these workarounds can waste hours upon hours of your time. ( hell drying paint is one of those annoying things that painters have to go through, before painting their next layer. )
i guess im at the point where i want to keep improving, but im forced to learn the ins and outs of many “speedbumps” ( cloth sims,hair systems, rigging tools, displacement solutions. ) that i really dont feel like i want to waste my energies on, because sooner or later they will be replaced with more intuitive solutions. which is why im thinking of trying to spend time learning how things work at the heart of it all instead of wasting the time learning interfaces of things that will be obsolete not long from now.
i can model many things and im rather confident in the area, but i feel i could be much better. theres a reason why many of the top studios offer life drawing to their employees, umongst other things. and its not to make people better their technique, but rather make their observational skills increase, and become more aware as a whole. something ive neglected for a while now.
plus, getting back to basics can be so much fun
sorry for having kinda stolen this thread, but to answer your questions about where where i work. at the moment nowhere. i finished ( i think ) work on http://www.annefrank263.com/ , and now im back in the negotiation process for a new job. ive had a number of really great offers that most would kill to get and i feel lucky to have even got them to begin with, butim trying to settle for something closer to home, at least for the next year and a half. finally landing a position can take a while. papers to be filled, references to be checked, interviews to be done, tests to be made, etc, etc.
as for WETA, i wish :), but im not sure id want to be there at the moment, because nobody i know is there. living in a new world is always an easier and more fun experience if theres a familliar face to go with it.
( btw i havent had 10 years experience ;). i been playing with 3d for a while, but only have a little over two years of actual experience in commercial work. im only 24 after all
and now back to your regular programming.
“i guess im at the point where i want to keep improving, but im forced to learn the ins and outs of many “speedbumps” ( cloth sims,hair systems, rigging tools, displacement solutions. ) that i really dont feel like i want to waste my energies on, because sooner or later they will be replaced with more intuitive solutions. which is why im thinking of trying to spend time learning how things work at the heart of it all instead of wasting the time learning interfaces of things that will be obsolete not long from now.”
Very good point indeed!!!
So you are doing the fx of a film on your own? Is this a short film or full? Freelancing is cool if one is really good, so great you have been enjoying.
About the 10 year part, sorry my mistake but I remembered like you have mentioned something like that in a forum, also telling that you have tested nearly all the modelers, 3d apps yourself.
Hey btw whats your rant on modo? I have tested it, again editing style but some crucial tools like slide was missing IMO.
What do you think?
Cheers