Problem with Pose-to-pose... or just to dumb to get it

[elarcano]

Hello everybody!

I’ve must of read like a zillion of threads about reposing your model from neutral pose to the one you want… but just can’t get “the Picture”. I’ve even tried the Pose-2-pose trick… but nothing.

I’ve created a simple model and with the preview off, I click Store MT and then I should be able to repose it without any problem, right? Well… not my case… I do have problems -and I’m not just talking about my multiple personality disorder- I’m talking about some minor movements of the structure with zshperes and then with the preview on, some parts kind of breaks apart or when I go to the highest density there’s a very hard line that just will not disappear. I try to go to the lowest density to fix it, but it’s like the poligons are in different planes… let me show you…

Ladies and Gentelmen… I present you… my problem:

So as you can see… I’m REALLY STUCK here… so if ANYONE can help me… I’d really apreciate it.

Thanks

PS.
First time with a 2.5D/3D program.
First time posting in zbrushcentral…

hmmmm… where’s my welcome hug?

Attachments

[Prayer]

you could go to subdiv 1 and use the move tool or rig it in another aplication to move it.

[elarcano]

Thanks Mr. Prayer,

To subdivide it, shouldn’t I have to make an adaptive skin and that would mean to lose the zsphere structure? Ergo, I would lose the possibility to repose it within Zbrush?

The problem is that the poligons kinda cross each other -at any division- and I try moving them around but the more I move them, the more messed up it gets. Is this -crossed poligons- “normal” or did I do something wrong?

I’m trying to look for solutions within Zbrush possibilities so I can understand the full capability of this program.

Thank again

[Prayer]

wel did you make him with zspheres ?? if so you can go up and down subdivision levels.
if so go to the first subdivision and try to fix it there.
if your subdevision level 1 is to high to move him then you could press the button reconstruct subdivision this wil reconstruct a lower subdivision and then you can move the body parts.
im also a beginner at Zbrush so i dont know all the tricks but this is how i usualy do it.
if pollys cross i canalways chache it in blender witch is a free 3d aplication (www.blender.org) (this program also has a nice script that makes tryangles into sqares that many people wil have use for)

if you need help click on my profile and e-mail me your e-mail so i can help you

[elarcano]

Well, regarding going down subdivisions and fixing the problem, here’s an attempt beginning from subdivision #3

The poligon that has the 2 arrows at a first view is on one plane, but as you can see, the arrows indicates some divisions within the same poligon that are not in the same plane -what I call “crossed poligons”- wich creates those “hard lines” in upper subdivisions.

I really don’t know if it has to do with the zsphere configuration or connection -parent/child- that I got messed up… and yes, I’ve tried out changing the membrane curvature, intersection resolution, minimal skin to child and parent… I’ve tried even doing a tribal dance around my PC to find a solution.

Man… this is really killing me and stopping me from advancing.

Oh, and Mr. Prayer, first of all, thanks for all the help.
Second, if I go to subdivision 1 and move around the mesh -I think thats what it’s called- it’s like repositioning or restructuring the hole figure… besides… shouldn’t the mesh be kinda align with the zspheres? At least at certain point for futher reposing?
I’m trying to find a solution based on the zsphere structure so I can repose the figure everytime I need to. For the project I have, the reposing issue is a BIG MUST KNOW HOW.

Thanks… now, where did I put those advils?

Attachments

[elarcano]

Here’s another example:

This is like going through a cave in the dark… the more you try to move further… the more you bump yourself

[mestela]

You’re hitting limits of zspheres. A few people have been able to pose them happily (see jason belec’s endless thread), most others find them more trouble than they’re worth.

You might be better off doing a make polymesh, then using the deformation palette to pose your creature (using the set temporary pivot button with deform->rotate). Not elegant, but it works.

[elarcano]

Thanks Mr. Mestela, I’ll check out Mr. Belec’s Thread and tryout the polymesh option.

Was kinda getting lonely out here, not to mention desperate… oh well… off to more experimentation with zspheres…

Finally, some light at the end of the cave… -hope it’s not someone with a flashlight that’s also stuck in here all bruised up-

Oh! This doesn’t mean that if ANYONE -And by that I mean ANYONE- has some more usefull info about this problem… please post it… -the idea is to leave this thread for futher reference for zbrushers with related problems-

[billrobertson42]

One thing to pay attention too. When you first start putting down z-spheres you need to frequently preview the mesh. If you notice parts there the mesh overlaps then you need to move those spheres around a bit so the mesh doesn’t overlap, and do this before you start modifying the mesh.

[elarcano]

That is True Mr. Robertson. I’ve been moving around zspheres more than I would like to just to get a good start in a neutral pose.
I’ve notice that when the links -branches, connections, or whatever you may want to call it- between more than one child that overlaps each other on a parent, the mesh tends to overlap too… although… this doesn’t seem to happen in Mr. Mestela’s -well explained- example http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=29617
I’m yet to figure out what I’m doing wrong.

But I do recommend to to see what Mr. Robertson pointed out by going to higher divisions, because what seems to have no mesh overlap at a low division might have it in a higher one.

-Please, if I’m wrong with one of my nonesense affirmations, do not hesitate to correct me-

Thanks to all

[Jason_Belec]

OK I recieved a special request for help. Let’s see if I can sum this up.

The problem being encountered is the fact that more than 1 rotaional axis is getting applied - big no no. It’s equivalent to gimble lock in animation rigs.

In post #1 second image where you move the zspheres.

1. Before doing any modeling you must store the zsphere morph
2. Before doing that you must Preview to see if you have any issues straight up. ie The heal geometry. Post #5 is also a good example of this problem.
3. If you intend to rotate/move a zsphere or a chain between zspheres you must have reference zsphere’s either side to control the rotations, this is where you are having the most trouble.

An example is a shoulder, the first zsphere from the body is really the clavical area, the next is the shoulder joint, the next the shoulder, the next the upper arm. This means that you can control rotation on each area seperately and not affect the others. If you try to make a zsphere handle more than 1 axis you will get a mess.
4) Post #6, spread the toes wider apart, they are overlapping when you goto Preview mode. Before you even start modeling you should pose and test to make sure your underlying structure will work - otherwise why waste time modeling.
5) For those with little RAM, don’t go nuts and try to set the initial levels at 7 or 8, your system just won’t handle it (try 5 or 6 MAX). Way too many calculations. A solution exists, but I’ll post that in my thread at a later date. Not necessary here.

I hope this helps, most of the problems in this thread and issues people have with zspheres in general are from not testing at the initial stages. Everyone wants to jump in gung ho, and so did I at one time. However in the 20 or so years I’ve been doing this stuff, patience and planning has always been rewarded.

And yes, my thread on the subject of zsphere’s is long, but it does show the progression, and allows anyone to re-evaluate my steps/approaches and possibly surpass me in every way. This I have always encouraged everyone to do over the years and a few really have.

[elarcano]

Ok, moved to Jason’s thread in slow student mode: http://zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=21407&highlight=jason+belec

Highly recommended