ZBrushCentral

Posing a fist

Hi all!

A queston before I go to sleep…

I thinking of modelling a sumo wrestler and wondering wich workflow to use.
I going to have the guy in a squat pose with both hands as fists.
I tried to pose him at the lowest sub divison first but then I realized that I would be hard to do detailed fingers after the pose. I tried on a high sub division level but the posing takes for ever…

Should I make it in the standard “T pose” and finnish the model an then pose or vice verca?

Also, I find it VERY hard to pose the hand to a fist not to say impossible.
Any tip on this would be most welcome.

Husse

Well, the easiest thing to do, if you know you want to sculpt a figure with clenched fists, is to simply model him that way in the first place. Model the base hands as solid masses, and “sculpt” them into fists.

The second easiest thing to do is to model separate fingers, but model them into a “clenched” position from the start. This will make it easier to sculpt them into a fist from the start.

Next, you can take the approach of modeling the fingers in an extended, relaxed position (which has the benefit of making the figure’s hands poseable for more than one position, if you anticipate the need). Then, hide everything but the hand, and use masking and the transpose controls to “bend” the fingers into place joint by joint.

This will take a bit of effort, and the end result for such a fine detail area will be far from perfect. This really only gets the appendages into a “ballpark” position, and you will have to further sculpt the area to make it look right.

Hints: Start at the lowest subD level, and use the move brush with little or no falloff, to pull the individual finger verts into a more accurate position (it is helpful for this purpose, to have a base finger mesh divided into 3 logical sections, with 2 clean intersecting edge loops…the more geometry you put there at the base level, the more complicated it will be to pull these points into position). Then, run over the fingers lightly with the inflate brush with low falloff to make sure the digits have the proper mass. Once the form is correct, start moving up SuBD levels for detail sculpting.

Finally, for the absolute best results, you could rather painstakingly create a detailed Zsphere hand armature, with accurate articulated joints, positioned appropriately under the mesh( or create your mesh as an adaptive skin from that rig in the first place). Then, bind the mesh to the armature skeleton in the rigging pallet, and manipulate the zsphere skeleton to pose the fingers.

This will result in probably the easiest and most accurate “posing” of the digits, but you will still have “cleanup” work to do. No matter what you do, a “posing” process will cause you to lose much sculpted detail in the fingers, so it would be better not to do any detail work on them until they are posed in the proper position, and the form is correct.

[sorry for the book here]

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me all those super tips Scott!

I think the rigging option is the one I prefer, that´s what I have tried so far.
I like the idea of being able to change pose in the future.
Unfortunately I´m encountering a couple of problems doing this:
I used the “super average man” for test purposes and after rigging all limbs (right word?) it´s hard to see what happens to the mesh when posing, the Zsphere rig is “in the way” so to speak. It seems that I´m missing somesthing here…
Also the mesh doesn´t “stick” all the time, sometimes. For example, when I bend the elbow, the rig comes popping out at the meshes elbow so the arm mesh makes like an arc instead of following the rig. (hope you´re not lost here…) It would be so cool if there was some more rigging options like inversed kinematics and some constrains but I guess I have to realize that Zbrush is a sculpting software first of all.
Another thing is getting hold of the zsphere rig joints in the hand to rotate and move, that I find an almost impossible task. A zshere hand with all the joints at the right place is very hard to produce I think.

Also maby the size of the rig is important? I think I must experiment a little with that.

Again, thank´s for your tips! If you got more, keep them comming!

Cheers.

Husse

The Zsphere rig weighting can be adjusted be repositioning and rescaling Zspheres, and sometimes adding additional Zspheres to control the bend more precisely. It is reasonably accurate considering the effort you’d have to make to get similar results painting weight maps in a traditional animation program, but it is always going to involve trial and error.

I, personally, have always preferred to just pose my figure with the transpose controls for the more precise control and less time investment, but people’s experiences and preferences vary.

Just don’t have unrealistic expectations…you are always going to have to touch up the figure afterwards no matter what kind of posing you do.

The best advice I can give you about hands in particular, is to keep your lowest level of geometry logical and manageable, so you can pull individual points into position easily. I think it is vital to invest in good topology before doing any advanced sculpting or posing. So you might “pose” your digits at sub level 2 or 3, to get a curved “claw”, then drop down to subD level 1 to pull the verts landmarks into place, then work your way up a couple more subD levels doing the same thing.

Fingers are tricky to rig in any application, at least in Zbrush you have the tools to quickly correct any deformities as a result of the posing process. At least in 3.5 we can now zoom in all the way without limitation, so detail areas like hands are much easier to get at.

Thank´s Scott!

Just before reading your reply I found some interesting reading on rigging. Take a look right here:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=44876&page=1&pp=15

Thank´s again for replying to all my strange newbie questions! They are always very wellcome!

Husse