ZBrushCentral

Plus and Minus (+ & -)

Common sense in Art of reality and digital space

Traditional painting
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Traditional painting offers the ability to do something infinite in size. The color is also relative to real world light, so the colors you see in your creation are never the same to your eyes. A real life image is more effective during the day, because of it’s dependancy on the suns constant radiance.

A large piece would take more materials because you can not scale a stroke or continuously apply color in reality without wasting something. To undo something in reality, you must also waste materials. Unless you wanted to redo the whole image with a different hue by using the same amount of materials and time, you’re stuck with what you have done. Any readjustment will deter the image from what it originally was, due to your human touch. Zooming in and out involves the distance between your eyes and the canvas. It is great to be able to produce an infinitely large image, but if you have to walk away from it and see the whole thing from a distance; you are disabling yourself from being able to draw with that proper perception. It is difficult to maintain perspective if you are working on a wallsize image.
Digital Painting
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Digital painting offers many freedoms in error correction and readjustment. Your color palette can be absolutely controlled. Your materials are infinite. No cleanup of materials are involved. You can change the color of a finished project infinitely without deterring it’s original concept. It is possible to zoom in beyond natural vision to edit pixels/pixols.

Depending on complexity of color arrangement and image size, your system will become sluggish, and your brush will not react as fast as your hand movement. Since you can’t create an infinitely large image due to your limit of computer memory(CM) and speed of processor (CPU), images can only be created at most 4096x4096 resolution(approximately 3’x4’ printsize) while maintaining the ability to at least draw with a sluggish brush. A print is not even half as rich as the drawing you created. An unprinted digital image’s color is absolute, since it is projected off a screen that gives light. It is deterred by the light of the sun instead of being improved upon.

Traditional sculpting

All the principles in painting can be applied to sculpting. Sculpting however, deals with adding and/or subtracting from a three dimensional canvas.

Besides basic clay characters, sculptures are not usually animated. Weight issues restrict from being able to build with absolute freedom in composition, and must be distributed based on real world calculations. Erosion is noticable on older sculptures. You only have one chance to do subtraction modeling(wood carving). When choosing a medium, in most cases you are stuck with that medium and will not be able to turn a marble carve into wood.

Digital Sculpting
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Digital sculpting is a very unique blend of mathematics and art. It is possible to animate any object created. There is no need to worry about weight. Modeling in symmetry allows quick sculpting of an identical side. You can scale to any virtual size. No matter what is being done, it is possible to add or subtract from the object at any time. It is easy to convert a sculpted objects surface to look like any material, such as wood, clay, metal, etc.

All sculpts are most likely to be based on square/triangular polygons. Since digital sculpting is heavily dependent on underlying surface, your objects will not be able to shape properly without planning. Proper arrangements of these polygons is key when defining your initial shape. In order to smooth an object, you must cut each visible polygon into four pieces(assuming they are 4 point polys). Each time you smooth , you have less control over your base shape, and your computer also becomes more sluggish. A digital model can never be physical. At best, it can only be a print in reality.

At best, it can only be a print in reality.

Some great sound theory, Mike. The only monkey wrench I would throw in the works is that yes,…thru the wizardry of technology you can have your 3d model taken into rotoscroping…or rototyping or rapid prototyping…(something along those lines) and have your 3d digital world become a tangible 3d sculpture…though from what I have read and seen to date, size matters…gasp…One or two of the forum members at one time I think were talking about investing in the machinery. Anyhoo…you have said some great words here…

Were you opening up a discussion or just making a statement(s)?

anyhoo…keep the faith.

Ron:+1:

Ron: Were you opening up a discussion

It’s always open.

[rotoscroping…or rototyping or rapid prototyping] I wonder how that really works. I don’t even know what is really.

Anything that will make me less ignorant is a winner.

I think “many freedoms in error correction and readjustment” glosses over a whole topic unto itself. Starting with my namesake, the undo button. This, layers, and the ability to save different states of your work to return to later, are hugely liberating changes that have never existed in art before. Not to mention compositing, which branches off even further.

So important are they, I’ve read essays citing those tools as the reason digital works will never be considered “art”. (Of course, everyone here knows better, right?)

Regarding print size, 4096x4096 is your practical limit in Pixols. Given all the information contained in each one, that’s not surprising, but it’s not the case in a flat 2D world. Photoshop CS can now texture a billboard at 300dpi, and if you’re running full speed in ZBrush, your machine should have no trouble handling that.

On the minus side, an unprinted digital image’s color is only absolute on a properly calibrated monitor. Most people viewing your work are seeing something very different than what you created.

As for the stereo lithography (yet another name for rapid prototyping), this site has a fairly non-technical explanation with lots of pictures. And a monthly modeling contest where you could win your own work, but they don’t seem to be running that right now.

I might as well say “things are subject to change quickly” at the bottom of my passage.

Yeah we all know better. Anything from one’s mind is art. Poser software may not exactly be art(maybe for the main creators it is), but , undoing, redoing doesn’t deter the meaning for our digital counterpart.

Variables are encountered when talking about size issues. I’m sure 17364x29452 is possible, because I saw it on my screen before. But the color complexity was too high for my ram to handle. 4096x4096 pixols reallly kill it too. This image at one point had 12 layers and was getting seriously boggy
http://img199.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img199&image=01megaflight1eh.jpg
( I don’t mean to root my images on like that, but it was a good example at the time)

It true that there are variations between our colors on the monitor. I forgot to throw in that there is an assumption that we all have a perfect monitor.

Interesting and true words…

and I didnt mean any offense by my comments…I didn’t know if you were wanting a discussion or if someone had p#$$ed you off or something…I like your ideas though.

All I know is that my father was a traditional artist, unlike his son, me. I don’t have to dig thru disks to see his works, I simply look on the walls or open a closet door and there it all is…or a great deal of it, at least the originals. He would spend weeks and months on a piece. I don’t have the patience for that. When I paint or have attempted to paint traditionally, I have failed miserably and the final piece looked like doo doo…My drawings are ok, but stagnant and lifeless…and my digital art is not much better…but I can make the changes quick and easy as you said. I often check via friends computers to see how the artwork looks on their screens…to see how much of my work is lost due to miscalibrations or crappy monitors and pi$$ poor video cards on my friends parts…keeps me in line…I once went a very long time and didnt use that practice…until one day someone finally asked me…“Hey Ron why is your modeling always so dark or words to that affect?” I checked on other systems and low and behold months and months worth of “doodlings” were deemed worthless…so I have kinda learned my lesson on that.

Back to painting…I am going to attempt to paint again soon. Does a body good and a mind even better imho to mix the mediums up ever so often. Though my subject matter will probably remain dark and abyssmal, stretching the old wings in a traditional manner like this may be another breath of fresh air for my ole brain pot.

The one thing I will say about the digital medium is that it’s so disposeable. I mean I have created a 1000 images easily since I found Zbrush. I kept them on disks to measure how far I have come over the years…with an even longer journey ahead of me. But looking back on what i thought was decent art back then and comparing it to now (my work that is) I am embarrassed that I could have been so arrogant in my thinking to have thought it had any value. LOL…I guess the reward in all that old stuff was just the learnign experience and having fun…those works of mine were truly ghastly and not from a creative standpoint but from lack of technical abililty…Came across a bunch fo it last night while looking for an animation someone had done for me…and some of those pics on disks looked like something my 11 year old son doodled in his sleep…way to funny for me to look back on that stuff…guess we all gotta start somewhere. I have been clearing alot of that old stuff out of my Renerosity gallery as well.

I put a little zadd on a 3d sphere back then and poooof I thought I was an artisit ready for Hollywood…lol…so arrogant of me…

Though I would like to be paid to do my art, I can see me looking back on this thread a few years from now and saying, “Geez Ron what in the heck were you thinking…?” Guess I will always be displeased with anything I create no matter the medium…but hey…Zbrush is cheaper than therapy :slight_smile:

Well enough of my ramblings…lol

Ron

I see how you can look back and see how far the gaps are between your work quality(because I do for myself), but because you have already done something, it’s a basis for your next creation. You know the first couple of steps, so it takes no thought to put them back on the canvas. After that, it’s like fixing an old painting, even though you are working on something brand new. Make sense at all? I talk strange according to some.

hidden tip:

Cavity shaders can colorize the spots where your objects intersect. I bring up the first dedicated image I created(the megaflight). Alot of things intersect one another in that image, if you look close enough you can see that the assigned cavity properties are always drawing a line around the intersecting zones. And cavity shaders take responsibility for the insides of a Z-subtract.

After that, it’s like fixing an old painting, even though you are working on something brand new. Make sense at all? I talk strange according to some.
lol…we both talk strange…except you speak with more eloquence than I do. At 40 I am still listfully wandering…so don’t feel too bad at 23… and I think you nailed it with fixing and old painting…I save models and paint them up once usually, but normally if I do go back to one to tweak and repaint, it is like fixing an old painting…and that is also one of the reasons I don’t play with poser much. Paper dolls and manequins… at some point they might be good for me to populate a scene with a crowd of posettes as a backdrop…though I have seen some very nice works done using poser, it’s just not my cup of tea…

ron

one

Abnoxio:spent many hours watching and stopping through your script, taught me a lot.
that trick with the cutting the inside out to increase the …check out my
attempt of your teqhnique , it’s on this site.

Looks like I helped someone out. Makes me feel a little better about myself. Alright guys, it starts here. No more crap from me, both in verbal and visual sense.

You sound a lot like me when I first started doing 3D art. I would see peoples work, and say I can do that. I’d ultimately fail, due to many reasons, but the main one is lack of understanding. For one, there is no shortcut to being good at anything. Some people may pick things up faster, but by no means is it easy or fast for everyone. You still need to go through a learning process in order to achieve your goal.

I was just about 26 when I started researching 3D stuff, I’m 28 now. Actually I didn’t even have a computer until I was 23, so I’m still green in that aspect too! Anyway, it’s taken me almost 2 years to get to the level I’m at now. I personally don’t think I’ve spent my time wisely, and I am sure it’s because I don’t have a creative environment to grow from. That’s a different issue though.

My advice to you is to start thinking about what you want to do, and do it. If I had a chance to go back to two years ago, I would have went to back to school. Yes it’s expensive, but if you have a clear idea, and total dedication to what you want to do, it will pay off in the end. But don’t wait around to make that decision. Once you start to get older you seem to pile on this stuff called responsibilities and debts. Those are two things hard to shake off if you want to change your life.

I’m calm again. what’s left for discussion?

Oh, the rapid prototyping. It uses sandy material that mixes with water. But how does it determine the shape of the object? I can’t really imagine what the equipment would look like.

I didn’t know things like this could already happen.

Lesson learnt. Just going to listen to chadtheartist and do what I need to do. Looks like he limited a significant level of irrelevant complaints.

Attachments

pukewalter.jpg

sephellius:

I too, was looking into investing in the prototyping machine.
I saw one at a convention. The one I saw creates a rubber-like
and ceramic 3d versions of your model. From which you could
make moldes to cast metal or other materials.

The machine isn’t cheap, it’s like $60K USD. I would love to
have tangable vesions of my models. I wonder what others
would pay to have their models sculpted?

-TL74

I would pay a couple of hundred bux without too much problems. Once I finally get some characters I am happy with digitally, I would love to have them made into firstly a static sculpt, and then possibly segmented models for action figure assembly for making master molds…
ron