no smoothing on inported polymesh? cant be!

[system]

hello zbrushians, your onto something.

serriously digging the modelling thus far - its the move tool, quite simply, some of the best money we’ve ever spent on a ‘feature’.

however, something that has scared me deeply, but which i hope wil easily be sorted:

i cant for the life of me manage to smooth imported polymeshes (tool>mod>def>Smooth, that is), all other defs are working. no problems smoothing gear built from the procedural meshes … i did a search for this, but nothing stuck out, so im dearly hoping that it is something this end.

cheers.

[aurick]

Hi there!

What you’re trying to do is make imported mesh free of the polygonal look, right? In other words, activate ZBrush’s equivalent of Hypernurbs?

If so, then you’re using the wrong smooth slider.

I know – it’s confusing, but there are actually two Smooth sliders in the tool palette. Tool>Modifiers>Deformations>Smooth is normally used after you have divided a mesh in order to smooth out edges that are left over from before the division.

What you need is the Tool>Modifiers>Smooth slider that is between the tool preview and the top of the Deformations menu (right below the Store button). It defaults to zero, but sliding it up to one activates hypernurbs-style smoothing of the mesh without increasing the number of polygons. In addition, the Divide slider right next to it increases the strength of the smoothing algorithm. The default is 3, but you can crank it all the way up to 32 for those moments when the polygons are being extra cranky.

Let me know if that helps you out!

[system]

hey aurik,

appreciate your response, however, i dont intend to render in ZBrush, i use it more as a modeler. i wish to actually smooth/average the vertices …create a box, smooth, smoth, smooth - sphere (at the vert/geom level, as in what ‘dots’ rendering reveals): i wish to budge the geometry itself. this works just fine on the primatives you are provided with, but as soon as you use the PolyMsh3D tool, the geometry no longer responds to my smoothing persuasions. Do/haveencounter this problem? Any more clues?

much obliged.

[aurick]

OK. I understand what you mean, then.

The tool that you need is the other Divide button – the one at the bottom of the Deformation menu. When you click that button, it doubles the polygon count in all unmasked parts of the model. Following this up with the Smooth deformation will smooth out the vertices.

Edge sharpness is a function of the number of polygons in the model and how close their relative sizes.

What you are seeing happen with native ZBrush objects is actually one of ZBrush’s subdivision algorithms at work. It doesn’t affect the geometry of the model, and as a result it won’t look the same when exported unless the exported model is given subdivision in whatever program it is taken into. You can actually see the true geometry of a native ZBrush object by turning off SV and SH right underneath the tool preview.

[system]

hey aurik, thanks again for your replies.

i understand all that your are saying, im down with ya! however, let me insert the problem …:

The tool that you need is the other Divide button – the one at the bottom of the Deformation menu [this should be res indep.]. When you click that button, it doubles the polygon count in all unmasked parts of the model. Following this up with the Smooth deformation will smooth out the vertices [—> this is the thing, it aint smoothing the vertices on my imported ‘3d PolyMeshes’!!! This Smooth function works fine on the primatives, but not on my imports. all the other deformatn functions work fine on all meshes, just not Smooth on imported PolyMeshes.]

i dl the demo versn to check to see if it might have been something to do w a bung binary …but when i tested it on the star, the same result of no result. in the manual under 3d PolyMesh, Modifers, Deformatn it claims “The same deformatn controls are availible for all 3d objects”.

i dont think this a technique thing as (appart from being stupidly simple) i have no problems applying any other deformatn on any mesh. just to be doubly sure, you are 100% sure that you have no problems smoothing a 3D PolyMesh object? i do hope this is the case, and i am just missing something simple …but what?

thanks alot again!

[system]

Hey drinist How Did You (import) with the Polymesh3D Tool with the DEMO.

[system]

hey,
with the demo version i, as mentioned above, “tested it on the star” - as in the little piece of ‘PolyMesh’ geom that hangs off the PolyMesh3D Tool. it was to test on just that little star that i dled it - and it didnt smooth. guess what id just love to know is whether this is something peculiar to my setup: the inability to smooth/average an imported 'PolyMesh’s vertices? just tried saving the imported mesh as a native zbrush tool, .ztl, still didnt smooth.

can people smooth their imported ‘PolyMeshes’?

no hard feelings ÈZ, i would have wondering myself.

cheers.

[aurick]

The star is a pretty basic tool. Not a whole lot there for ZBrush to work with. Have you tried your experiments using the Rhino that comes with the TextureMaster as part of the tutorial? That is an imported mesh, but because it’s been converted to a .ZTL, you can load it. But it behaves in exactly the same way that any other imported mesh would.

[system]

well the top half you did say : Smooth function works fine on the primatives, but not on my imports. all the other deformatn functions work fine on all meshes, just not Smooth on ((imported)) PolyMeshes.

nope no hard fealing after i eat ill be back and see what i can help you with unless some one beats me to it LOL

[system]

yeah the star pretty much is used for 1 function and that is if you click it then under tool ( Modifyers) (inventory) it then open up the IMPORT box for Obj and DFX thats about all its used for here is a sample of smooth just with a Star
SMOOTH.txt

[system]

thanks people, appreciate you keeping w this.

my only interest in the star was that it has geometry that might be considered as a ‘PolyMesh’ object, a geometry which appears to be different from the type of geometry produced by the procedural primatives, a geometry that fails (in my case) to respond to the Smooth function found in the Deformations section, not the display (as you have shown in your script -cheers for that tho!), but rather, an actual geometry modifying function …the geometry you see when you display in ‘dots’ (Peeferences), those points there …i want to be able to smooth them just as i can do w any of the primative meshes.

create a cube primative, go to the tool’s modifiers>deformation>smooth and apply a number of times …the points of the cube are averaged heading towards a spherical shape (if there’s no masking). create another cube, export it. import it. go to the tool’s (now the PolyMesh3D tool) modifier>deformation>smooth and apply it -could you please tell me now whether the smooth is acting just as it did before. thats all im asking at the moment

cheers!

oh yeah, and the rhino doesnt smooth either.

[aurick]

I see what you’re talking about, now. The smooth function does indeed work differently on a mesh than it does on a native object.

I also don’t know of any deformation that would have the effect that you’re talking about. Although you can get some interesting results with the Spherize deformation (on the second page of the panel)…

[system]

how differently? i see no results at all, its as if i havent even applied the smooth deformation.

this is nothing to do with the display/render smoothing that one can do.

im not looking to do anything special here, i just want to do the old smooth i can do on the normal primative meshes, but on imported meshes. did you try the smoothing a box example: no special effect here.

… so when you do the smoothing of an imported mesh, the pnts ARE actually smoothing for you?? - they do not budge a bit for me.

want i am trying to discern here is whether this is irregular behaviour on my part, or, infact, smoothing of ‘PolyMesh3D geometry’ does not work for everybody!

thanks again.

[system]

i think your using the Wrong Smooth.
you have a set below (deformation)Dont use that…
look above (deformation) it Has 2 sliders SH and SV there for smooth thats the one you want if you pick a 3D object it will show SH /SV but if you use a polymesh star it will say smooth and divide its all in the same area
your probley using smooth (BELOW) deformation AND thats Not what you want

[Muvlo]

Somebody please correct me if I get something wrong, but I’ll do my best to sum up this thread:

1. An imported polymesh is different from a native ZTool.

2. There are two types of smoothing that can be used on tools.

3. One type of smoothing is for display purposes only; it is a superficial change that increases the apparent amount of polys. It is useful for native and polymesh tools.

4. The other smoothing actually averages the polys out in a model. It only works with native ZTools though.

I hope that is all correct.

[system]

From the Z-manual here is some i.n.f.o

[system]

Muvalo, nicely put! just so ppl dont take it as wrote, im unsure about the nature of 1.

the question surrounds your 4th point - IS THIS TRUE?

im not looking to do any of the, as Muvalo has phrased it, ‘superficial’ dispaly smoothing …this type of smoothing does not alter the location of the base geometry points (as can be evaluated by rendering in dots mode). i want to be modeling on the base geometry points (i’ll call it base so its not confused w a possibly ‘render smoothed’ result), i want to shift the point locations just as any of the modelling tools allows you.

thanks for the manual post, but i have read it, and the relevant section a number of times …even quoted the point of contention above … ‘in the manual under PolyMesh3D, Modifers, Deformatn it claims “The same deformatn controls are availible for all 3d objects”’. Im not so sure of this statement, as from my experiecne the Smooth deformation function fails to produce any results when applied to imported meshes (or just the star).

all thats i want answered is this:

1. enable the PolyMesh3D tool.
2. dump a star on the canvas.
3. go to Modifiers>Deformation>Smooth and slide it right a number of times (making sure axes are enabled).

–> please give a simple report as to whether doing this actually changes the position of the star’s base geometry points.

thanks all!

[Muvlo]

Sorry, but no, smoothing a polymesh changes nothing.

The good news is, I bet you that 1.5 (coming out at the end of July) will fix this!

[system]

right! woohoo! thankyou, thankyou Muvlo! After that elation, it is sad that this is the case …and that it wasnt documented (or is it?). But yeah, i would be happy to bet a part of my anatomy that they will have PolyMesh smoothing in 1.5 …looking very much forward to it.

we can now, finally, lay this thread to rest (its had a hard and long life, it deserves it)!

thanks again Muvlo, and to everyone else who contributed.

cheers.

[Pixolator]

Hi
The deformation smooth function is working on ZTL (ZBrush native format) object as well as on PolyMesh3D imported objects. The difference is that for PolyMesh3D objects, the Tool Modifiers Deformation Smooth function is working in conjunction with the Tool Modifiers Smooth value to determine which of the poly-points need to be adjusted.
To properly use the Tool Modifiers Deformation Smooth with PolyMesh3D object, you first need to set Tool Modifiers Smooth to be larger than zero (usually 1, which is the maximum value ) and then apply the Tool Modifiers Deformation Smooth function.
Hope this helps,
-Pixolator