ZBrushCentral

Newbie question: why meshes?

ZBrush Usage Questions
#1

I’m new to computer sculpting. I’ve played with Blender and found it almost useless. Having to consciously deal with polygons, subdivision, etc., takes away much of the satisfying experience of the sculpting process.

When I read about Z3 and the ‘digital clay’ concept, it seems like the perfect thing. However, from reading the Z2 manual (I can’t find a downloadable Z3 manual) and these forums, I’m puzzled why everyone is still talking about meshes. Starting from a ‘digital clay’ sphere, I should be able to stretch and sculpt it into anything. That’s what the demo videos seem to suggest. So why should Z users even think about meshes?

#2

First, it shouldn’t be a surprise that ZBrush 2’s documentation talks about meshes a lot. After all, ZBrush 3 hadn’t been invented yet and so all the old rules still applied.

Second, what you do with ZBrush depends upon what you want to get out of it. If you want to create or detail models that can be used for animation, then you still need to be thinking about meshes. What’s nice, though, is that you can now think about things like topology at the end of the process rather than at the beginning.

Finally, the documentation that’s currently available for ZBrush 3 is at www.zbrush.info. It’s growing and being flieshed out with every passing day.

#3

The answer to your general question is relatively simple: 90% of the people who purchased ZBrush 3 use it as a pipeline tool, and will take the ‘digital clay’ from Z3 into a rendering/animation package such as Max, Maya, or XSI. Regardless of what Pixologic calls it, it’s still a mesh (a network of vertices, edges, or polygons). To use another example, when you go to Starbucks, you order a Venti, Grande, or Tall… but it’s still Large, Medium, or Small :slight_smile:

#4

I have no experience with other 3D pipeline stages so I don’t understand why topology (I suppose topology means different mesh layout for the same shape?) is important. I would like to use a 3D printer to print a Z3 created object, so I suppose the least I need to do is to reduce the polygon count. But because it’s a one way street (from Z to print), there is no need to worry about future subdivision, so the topology of the reduced polygon count mesh doesn’t matter. Is that true??

#5

I’ve done a lot of 3d printing but using Rhino3D or Artcam to create a watertight mesh which is then export as STL. With free form sculpting you will need to be careful not to create overlapping areas where one portion of the mesh bumps into or overlaps another e.g. skin folds. This could confuse the 3D printer. This is when you have to worry about topology (but not necessarily about the flow of the mesh).

Could someone who has printed from ZBrush verify if this is the case?

#6

Topology (and therefore Re-topologizing) is important for a number of different reasons that may not affect you. Here are a couple that pertain to myself:

Animation: A mesh that does not have proper edgeflow (the general flow of polygons… topology) will not deform properly when animated. To use an example, if you do not have proper edgeflow on say, a knee area, when the joint is bent for animation, you may see some really nasty results… A smashed knee, or polygons shooting off in different directions.

Poly Distribution: Sometimes you need to adjust your polygon distribution… Sometimes, when creating your base mesh you just didn’t plan far enough ahead and you put way too many edgeloops in an area that didnt need it, or vice versa… Retopo lets you fix these mistakes without having to start from scratch (a tear jerking experience if you’ve ever had to do it). In addition, if you use a 3D scanner to get your meshes, they come in all tri’s and are not very efficient for rendering or animation. 99% of the time you will have to retopo your scanned mesh if you’re going to use it for production.

#7

Well, there IS claytools, were meshes are not a concern at all until you export. It uses Voxels…

It’s also very expensive ( $2600+ ). requires a beast of a machine, and a special input device.

That said, I find ‘zbrush’ to be a great compromise between conventional poly modeling, and freeform voxel modeling.

#8

I noticed that many users use other programs such as Maya to create the mesh and import that into ZB. But doesn’t ZB support the creation of meshes? If so, is the mesh creation tools in Maya much better than those in ZB?

From the documentation it seems ZB3 includes tools to reduce the polygon count. Is that correct? If so, if I’m interested only in modelling and possibly 3D printing, but not in animation, is ZB3 the only software I need to go from idea to printed object?

I’m sculpting only as a hobby, and ZB3 is priced reasonably enough even for hobbyists. But I can’t possibly afford to buy Maya or 3d Max.

#9

There was a thread here a few weeks ago on printing 3d objects–I believe the guy created the base mesh in maya and then sculpted in Zbrush. Here is the thread: http://zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=43413

I am doing a trophy sculpture for a friend who wants to get it printed and I did the base mesh in maya though he said it didnt matter if I did it using zbrush only.

I come from a traditional sculpting background and absolutely hated meshes when i started–using box modelling in max and maya. Zbrush is definitely more like traditional sculpting. If you want to do 3d printing–I would think you could just make the base mesh in Zbrush 3(unless someone can tell me otherwise)

Zbrush mesh creation tools are significantly more artist-friendly than maya’s–though I have gotten used to them. I just hate UVs and edge loops.

#10

A lot just depends on how much control you want over the mesh density, its deformation, and how comfortable you are modeling with zspheres Vs. regular box or polygon modeling. UV mapping of objects is important too.

If it’s all staying in ZB and you’re going to have a final mesh density that’s way up there and just use transpose most of this is irrelevant IMHO.

For many faceted objects and precise placement of such objects I find ZB harder to use than most 3D packages.

For me it just depends- and since you can now retopolyogize (?) the mesh it’s not a huge problem (though I find doing that takes just as much if not more time than making a good base mesh in a 3D program to begin with).

You don’t need Maya, XSI or 3DS MAX etc. for this- something as simple and free as wings 3D or Blender will easily do the job- and give you more UV options. Silo is an inexpensive program that will give you even more control…for very little money.

You don’t have to be a master box modeler to get huge advantages out of using another package in your process- I think a lot of people get to into making the final mesh in the outside application and don’t focus more on the most basic shape and mesh density and flow. How many Mr. Potatoe head box models have we seen turn into Davids?

K.I.S.S. seems key in the early steps with this method…

#11

Based on my experience with 3D printing, you will need at least one more application other than Z3, as ZBrush doesn’t support STL files (which are what 3D Printers take). Some printing services will accept OBJ or 3DS files and charge you a small conversion fee if that’s a route you’d rather take. However, I use Right Hemisphere’s Deep Exploration for converting files to and from different formats.

#12

NuGraph or Polytrans will to the job, that’s what I used when I was doing prototyping with STLs.

#13

Does Blender work nearly as well as the other conversion tools mentioned? Free software does have its appeals. But I suppose if it’s as good as the not-free software, then most everyone would be using Blender. So I suppose there are catches?

#14

I’m probably not the most qualified person to answer this, since I’ve never used Blender, but lacking any other responses here are my thoughts:

From what I’ve heard, Blender has a bit of a learning curve associated with it… I’ve never touched it so I can’t say for certain. The other point worth mentioning is that it’s unlikely that Blender can import or export STL files natively (used by 3D printers).

So like I said, I’m not the best qualified to answer, but at least you get a free bump out of it :slight_smile: