misss + displacement (maya)

[system]

does anyone else experience noticeable subdued details when loading displacements into a model in MAYA that is setup with misss. I’m using the fast_skin shader and have a displacement and even a normal map plugged in.

When comparing a render between the fast_skin and a tpyical blinn, the typical blinn is much more detailed. The fast_skin shader doesnt display anywhere near the amount of detail i get from other shaders.

Displacemtn map was loaded into the model through the fast_skin_2sg (or whatever the input node is called)
Normal map loaded into the main shader ‘bump’ tab.

anyone ideas?

[Captain_Sensible]

I’m using SSS and a 32 bit displacement map at the moment. I have to agree the details are just not there. Normal mapping is too subtle also.

I’m gonna try the displacement on an AO shader later. I’m hoping once laid over the top it will perk it up a bit.

[yiannis_t]

It’s going to be helpful if you can provide us with an example.

It may something wrong with your shading network, but I don’t think so.
One of the natural properties of translucent material in nature and CG(like an Misss) is the “softening” of details like wrinkles and stuff, this effect may be exaggerated especially if is not tuned right.You may have not tuned sss attributes.

Do this Test:
In th Subsurface Scattering Layer of your shader, turn your Epidermal,Subdermal,Back Scatter Radii to 0, so your Subsurface Scattering effect is off and do a test Render.
If it looks more like you blinn test renders then you have to tune the radii, weight and depth of these variables

Hope that helps

[system]

captain…thanks for the post, glad im not the only one having issues like this.

yiannis…also glad to know its an acknowledged effect of misss. But i was also thinking that it may have something to do with the scatter levels.

It should be noted that when the fast_skin specular is ON and brightened, the specular appears to be scatted by either the displacement or normal map, its a very wet look, but would also like the detaisl on the mesh as well.

It should also be noted that in order to get the correct color from the texture map i painted in zbrush, i had to plug the texture(as a .map file) into the fast_skin’s diffuse color node, as well as the subsurface and the epidermal.

So the diffuse color, subsurface, and epidermal are pushing the color texture. Without this i found just the diffuse color pushing the texture provided an extremely dark and sometimes washed out color due to the added colors of the rest of the sub surface scattering levels.

This however shouldnt have much effect on the displacement or normal mapping of the mesh. But like yiannis mentioned my sub and epidermal layers may be too deep washing out details. will try as soon as i get home.

Keep me posted if you come across anything Captain

[yiannis_t]

I would recommend, to make a new Miss Material and connect only your displacement, nomal and bump(if you have).

Put some basic 3 point light setup

Do the previous test and if it is ok tune your settings in the SSS layer and then connect your textures.
You may have to tune more the Material and tune the textures in Photoshop.

Also if you really want more help with the tuning just upload a sphere (if it’s a head) or some basic primitives combination that have the same size and a similar shape as your model and I can help. If you have a very specific light setup upload that also.
When I have the time I can check what I believe it’s the best settings for your scale

Cheers

[Captain_Sensible]

After a bit of thought I think as Yiannis says, it’s just the nature of the shader. It’s supposed to have a very ‘soft’ and subtle effect with colours. I think it just does the same with displacement details too.

As I said I’m gonna try an AO render layer and I’m also gonna try a rendering of just the cavity but using a different material. Then layer them up in post.

Other than that I guess the only way is to use a bump that has all your details in (probably created via the bump material in ZBrush). I’ll post my findings tomorrow.

[Captain_Sensible]

And the correct answer is…

… a cavity map. Occlusion certainly helps but I found the best results were with a cavity layered in photoshop with my colour map.

The method I used to create the cavity was in ZBrush using the mask by cavity option. Filling my object white then masking and adding black to the cavity areas. Output as a texture and overlayed in photoshop at about 25% opacity.

Here’s my render without cavity…

It’s a bit of a ‘faked’ approach but works ok for my purposes.

Attachments

[system]

thanks for your findings captain. what did your render using jus the cavity map as the color texture look like?

[Captain_Sensible]

Hmm… I didn’t do a render of just cavity, as I applied it to my colour map pre-render. I was quite happy with what came out so I left it there.